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41 Comments

 
 

Full of Wisdom and Perfect in Beauty

Sirannon - 20 Sep 07 - 6:57 AM

General Comment

This will be my first review here on HASA and it will be a positive one. I just wanted to tell you that I have thoroughly enjoyed following your vision of Westernesse so far and I am impressed with the level of insight and creativity that has gone into making it real. I will be looking forward to further updates.

Rune 

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Maeve Riannon - 20 Sep 07 - 8:54 AM

General Comment

This will be my first review here on HASA and it will be a positive one. I just wanted to tell you that I have thoroughly enjoyed following your vision of Westernesse so far and I am impressed with the level of insight and creativity that has gone into making it real. I will be looking forward to further updates.

First review ever? *awed* Oh, I feel so honoured!

Thank you very much for your appreciation. This story is so big that I wonder if I´ll ever finish -getting a push or two is always nice. :)

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Full of Wisdom and Perfect in Beauty

ecrm - 13 Jul 11 - 4:34 AM

General Comment

I continue to wait on the edge of my seat for every chapter. Although I don't agree canonically with the story, your characterisations storytelling are fantastic. I have to admit after reading the latest chapter I've fantasised of seeing Ar-Gimilzor come before Mandos and being told the fullness of his error, the fate that awaits Numenor and his punishment for having his grandchild killed. But I doubt that's in your plan, he royally deserves it though!

Long Live Tar-Palantir!

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Full of Wisdom and Perfect in Beauty

Aganaphel - 25 Feb 07 - 11:59 AM

Ch. 1: Introduction

Maeve Riannon,

The story you have begun posting sounds most interesting. A long Numenor story!  I certainly will be reading this. I really hope you won't be "struck by lightning, or drown, or fall off a cliff" anytime soon!!!

You have masterfully included some spoilers in the first chapter - the snakes - the reference to Tar-Palantir and Gimilzor, am I right?

One suggestion is to include the date of action - I calculated the marriage of Inzilbeth should take place sometime around 3033-3034?

Please, update soon!

My very best wishes,

Aganaphel

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Maeve Riannon - 25 Feb 07 - 2:08 PM

Ch. 1: Introduction

Thank you, thank you! I am putting a lot of effort in this story (too much for what is healthy, actually), and yours is the first comment I´ve got. :) I think there aren´t too many Númenor fans, probably because Tolkien largely neglected to develop that part himself.

 No, I´m not going to fall of a cliff anytimes soon (because I´m nowhere near one), but there are chances yet that I won´t like how the fic is progressing.

To include the dates seems like a reasonable idea, once I finally manage to get them all inside my head... the marriage of Inzilbeth does take place in 3034, though.

 Maeve

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Adaneth - 26 Feb 07 - 9:07 AM

Ch. 2: Prologue: Child of Men

Mmhm, Phoenicians--tasty!  Grin

I'm looking forward to more.  The ominous foretelling vision was well done.

Cheers--

Adaneth

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Maeve Riannon - 26 Feb 07 - 11:41 PM

Ch. 2: Prologue: Child of Men

Hehe. There are two ways to read this fic: one consists in following the story, and the other in searching each chapter for references. The second is recommended for people with a slight suicidal streak. Wink

This having been said, none of the civilisations are shown in anything ressembling an accurate or exclusive way. (though I have to admit that some get significantly more references than the rest). But I can promise that it won´t be an usual Númenor in any case.

And any fan of Phoenicians is my friend. Pimp

Thank you very much for your nice comment!

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Aganaphel - 05 Mar 07 - 1:29 PM

Ch. 3: A Controversial Wedding

Very interesting chapter, Maeve.

Nice characterization. Actually I like your Gimilzor - somehow he came out as very likeable, clever, hard working guy, bearing all the burden of kinship instead of his half-crazy father. Great scene with Lady Zarhil - she is also bound to be one of my favorites. Inzilbeth is too young yet to be anymore than a victim, it seems. But she will grow up...

Great introduction into Your Numenor. One thing you must be dead right about is that Andunie monopoly for trade with Elves must have made them very rich. Understandably this implication is missing from the Akkalabeth...(written by Elendil)

I like your explanation of Gimilzor's reasons for changing his attitude toward the Faithful and even marrying one of them. There might have been an additional reason, though, and that was that by this time the life-span of the Kings has become sufficiently shorter than that of the Lords of Andunie (see this article by Alcuin: http://www.zarkanya.net/Tolkien/Decline%20of%20the%20Numenoreans.htm) - so brides coming from this line could be sought after to improve the Royal line in this respect.

There are some things, though, that puzzle me a bit. It seems that you make "Westernesse" a synonym for "Andunie". I may be wrong, but I have always thought that "Westernesse" was another name for Numenor as a whole.

You made Ar-Adunakhôr a bastard... Sure I understand that there should have been some reason for him to turn against the Eldar and the Faithful of Andunie so drastically as he did. You provided a good reason and an interesting "gap-filling" story. But yet, I don't think the proud Numenoreans would have accepted a bastard as King. The problem is that he was not just a bastard but a bastard of a serving maid. The Numenoreans were always opposed to lowly marriages and later generations of Kings always married within the Line of Elros. It was not only for pride, but to prevent the life-span of the children to become even shorter. In Arnor and Gondor they also stuck to the same rules (remember all this scandal about Eldacar?). So, I think that Ar-Adunakhôr had at least to be a son of a noble lady to be accepted. Or maybe Ar-Abattârik could divorce and remarry - the second marriage being never accepted by the Faithful?

Please, don't think I criticize you - I only share my thoughts on the subject. I love your story. Please, keep updating!

Cheers, Aganaphel

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Maeve Riannon - 05 Mar 07 - 2:42 PM

Ch. 3: A Controversial Wedding

 Hi, Aganaphel- , my, thanks for the long, thought-out review!

 I like your explanation of Gimilzor's reasons for changing his attitude toward the Faithful and even marrying one of them. There might have been an additional reason, though, and that was that by this time the life-span of the Kings has become sufficiently shorter than that of the Lords of Andunie (see this article by Alcuin: http://www.zarkanya.net/Tolkien/Decline%20of%20the%20Numenoreans.htm) - so brides coming from this line could be sought after to improve the Royal line in this respect.

Oh, I REALLY wish I had been aware of this before. My Gimilzôr is a rather paranoid man, and no matter how I bribed him, he still refused to marry Inzilbêth for a very, very long time. Even after I found a reason of sorts, he´s still quite grumpy about it. Rolling my eyes

Still, in my universe the kings (and above all *this* king) find "Elvish" blood more a cause for fear and disgust than envy, so this interpretation probably wouldn´t have worked anyway. One of the points I´m trying to make is that there are many things that later seemed obvious for the people who read the Akallabêth (that Númenor was given as a reward for the allies of the Elves by the Valar, that they turned away from the Elves later and that this was the origin of their decadence, that their lifespan had disminished because they clung to life, that their customs had once been very different, that they lived that much because they had the blood of the Halfelven) which were largely ignored by the late Númenoreans, who lived the cultural heritage of Ar-Adunakhôr.

There are some things, though, that puzzle me a bit. It seems that you make "Westernesse" a synonym for "Andunie". I may be wrong, but I have always thought that "Westernesse" was another name for Numenor as a whole.

Ooops. Thanks for pointing this out. I was so convinced that I didn´t even bother to check it. Embarassed

Sure I understand that there should have been some reason for him to turn against the Eldar and the Faithful of Andunie so drastically as he did. You provided a good reason and an interesting "gap-filling" story. But yet, I don't think the proud Numenoreans would have accepted a bastard as King. The problem is that he was not just a bastard but a bastard of a serving maid.

Uhm- well, "my" late Númenor, as it will become evident later on, is a hierarchised "despotic" monarchy of a centralised nature (like, say, that of ancient Egypt, or Japan and China). A result of this is (as the future Tar-Palantír will have the chance to highlight quite grumpily in a much later chapter) that the people who serve the Kings and their families in their palace are not serving maids or overall lowly people, but nobles whose position in the household of the Kings is their greatest honour. In the Númenorean council, composed by 13 members, 4 of them are Palace courtiers.

This means that the mother of Ar-Adunakhôr, though nothing is said about her in this story, was probably a quite important person. If she had been a lowly serving maid, she would never have gained access to Ar-Abattarik.

And, in any case: my intention was to show the scenario for the average Major Commotion. Something that caused the first Númenorean civil war and a radical change in culture, politics and, as it will be seen later, religion. In some ancient societies, there is a known pattern according to which ambitious men who climb to a position that was not theirs by birth are those who give "populistic" turns to their society and introduce the important reforms that are later seen as "social conquests", "modernisation" or "the abolition of ancient customs" (depending of POVs, particular circumstances and times), which originally had the sole purpose of strenghtening their power and usually weakening the aristocracy. For me, Ar-Adunakhôr was this ambitious man, and he re-founded the line of the Kings (which is mostly known as the Line of Ar-Adunakhôr afterwards), as well as re-organised the kingdom. And I could not deny that Ar-Abattarik was his father, but this plotline demanded that I made his claims to the Sceptre less than obvious.

I´m glad you´re liking this story. With such a knowledgeable audience I´m feeling quite anxious now about my updates! *hides*

(take this as a compliment -just in case. Smile)

Maeve

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Aganaphel - 24 Mar 07 - 2:05 PM

Ch. 4: The Shadow and the Child

Thank you for updating, Maeve.

Interesting new chapter. I liked Gimilzor's final realization of his mistake when he saw the child. Indeed, "the greatest fool is the man who is fooled twice over while thinking himself clever".

The obvious thing to do would be to take him away from his mother...Hmm...

I had a few questions, but you mostly answered them in your notes. If you whish Melkorism to appear so early, let us see where it will lead you.

One question remains: OK, sea-gray eyes, sharp nose and dark hair are features of the Andunie line. But how then do their kin the Kings look? Are they universally blond and blue-eyed? Is it even possible considering that Elrond and most likely Elros his brother also were of the grey eyed - black haired phenotype? I would guess that these features were not uncommon among the descendants of Adunakhor as well.

Well, it is a fascinating read. Good luck,

Aganaphel

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Maeve Riannon - 24 Mar 07 - 4:05 PM

Ch. 4: The Shadow and the Child

Thank you for updating, Maeve.

Thanks to you for reviewing -it made my day.

The obvious thing to do would be to take him away from his mother...Hmm...

As things are, I think Inzilbêth is barely taken into account as anything but a childbreeding tool- and this by both sides of the conflict. That a seventeen year old girl with no ambition, subtlety or education and no contact with her kinsmen could play an important role in antagonising the child and his father is out of the question for now.

For now.

If you whish Melkorism to appear so early, let us see where it will lead you.

Famous last words. Devilish

One question remains: OK, sea-gray eyes, sharp nose and dark hair are features of the Andunie line. But how then do their kin the Kings look? Are they universally blond and blue-eyed? Is it even possible considering that Elrond and most likely Elros his brother also were of the grey eyed - black haired phenotype? I would guess that these features were not uncommon among the descendants of Adunakhor as well.

As they will be described later, my descendants of Adunakhôr have: mostly black or brownish hair and black eyes (which sometimes can be brown, too). And their features are thick, not sharp.

Why? To be extremely honest, the main reason is this stupid: I did not want all my characters to look alike. If you look closer, everybody and their dog is from the line of Elros (with a couple of exceptions that will not appear until much later). This is horrible for descriptions.

If we are to pretend we are thinking deeper here, however, I would say that I want to convey the idea of "otherness" of the line of the Kings, or decay, if you will - their blood was once corrupted, and they lost their "legitimating" features. Which in a human world means little, as ideals can change as quick as the people in power themselves change (as in this case, what was once proof of "royalty" is now a signal of evil), but in Tolkien´s Greater Scheme of Things it has a larger meaning.

As for genetics... hmmmh, I don´t feel wholly comfortable with adding such a scientific dimension to Tolkien´s myths. Myth genetics are a stage between science and total chaos, I think -the vague awareness that features are meant to pass through the descendants of a lineage, and that a child that doesn´t look like his ancestors is a signal of something unauspicious. For Tolkien´s scheme of things, Ar-Adunakhôr was definitely something unauspicious, and that he would "interrupt" the genetics of his line is an idea that´s rather mythical than scientifical.

Well, it is a fascinating read. Good luck,

Thanks! Smile

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Aganaphel - 04 Apr 07 - 1:16 PM

Ch. 5: A Slip

Interesting new chapter, Maeve.

I like how you portray Gimilzor. It was foolish to marry Inzilbeth in the first place, it was foolish to leave her son with her. I really can't see what he DID gain by marrying a Faithful? Strange that he realized all that too late.

Also remarkable that he had a prophetic vision - his Kingly blood allows for that, it seems, despite his rejection of the old religion.

I also loved your brief insight into the Numenorean religious doctrine. The story of the crown of the Holy Melkor is even poetic!

But there I have a question: Why is Melkor "king of Armenelos?" Why not "King of Arda" or "King of the World" or something?

Thank you for posting. I am awaiting more updates!

Aganaphel

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Maeve Riannon - 04 Apr 07 - 3:12 PM

Ch. 5: A Slip

Once again, thanks for your insighted (does this word exist??) review!

 I really can't see what he DID gain by marrying a Faithful?

Well, back when he did it it was just the right manouevre to perform at the right time. He felt that his predecessors had left the Faithful largely unsupervised in the East and that they had grown strong, and his ambitious project consisted in pretending an alliance, "restoring" them to their old honours, and therefore forcing them to spend alternate years in Armenelos and leave family at the capital at all times (this was the system in absolute monarchies of many countries, and for that same reason: to prevent nobles from plotting treason). And, what was even more important: with this appearance of favour, he tore Eärendur away from his followers, who remained in the East.

His marriage to Inzilbêth was a mere pretext, the "facade" to do all this, because political decisions that are taken against a long tradition of contrary decisions must be sealed and justified. And it turned out well enough- but the tragedy of Paranoid Gimilzôr is that there is always something that he cannot control.

Same as for leaving his son with her - I think that Gimilzôr (who is quite young- as a ruler, at least) is, once again, believing that he can control everything, while in fact he cannot. I do not think he would have taken his heir away from his mother at birth, for no reason at all, against custom and tradition, and on plus cause a scandal, but still, the boy was far from being "left" with his mother either: the chapter shows that he spends most of the day with tutors and guardians that his father has chosen, and is just supposed to come and visit her once in a while. That a random tale told to a child could outweight hours and hours of "indoctrination" - this was not so obvious for him at the time. (And I think he was basically right, in a sense: the boy might have mentioned the wrong name and sent all his instinctive alarms flaring, but it´s clear enough throughout the conversation that if there´s something he knows well, it´s still the King´s religion. )

But there I have a question: Why is Melkor "king of Armenelos?"

Because in the religion I am recreating here, the god is deeply connected with the city. This means that he is defined as the "protector" god of a collectivity in opposition to others. He is *not* the god of others, he is the god of the Númenoreans. He may defeat and enslave the gods of other peoples, but he can never establish this relationship of protection with a stranger. If he became "King of the World", it would mean that the Númenoreans do not have any special right to his favour, and this would ruin the relationship between the god and his people. (This is not so weird: it was exactly the same story with the God of Israel. In fact, in Men´s history, universal gods are rather rare.).

As for why Armenelos and not Númenor, you might ask: The main atribute of the god I am recreating is his symbiotic relationship with royalty. He is the King´s divinisation; the King is his representative in the world of mortals and he is the King´s representative in the immortal plane. The fact that he lives in the capital, which is the King´s dwelling-place and centre of power, is just a way to underline this. But there will be a lot more of Melkor in this fic, as you may imagine.  :)

 Oops Embarassed- this was way too long. Thanks for your attentive reading, as always!

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Aganaphel - 15 Apr 07 - 10:58 AM

Ch. 6: The Festival of the King

Maeve, I am sorry to be so late with the review, especially after you thanked me right at the beginning of the chapter!  

I enjoyed the new chapter – it is great to see events from a different POV. Now Eärendur seems to be a nice guy. Scheming, yes, but still very likeable. It is a great achievement to make persons from different camps likeable and nice in their own way.   

Also I admired your description of Armenelos. It is masterfully done, complete with odors and colors. You make one want to visit it! *sigh*. The gardens, the temples and those "small, laberyintic streets, cunningly planned with a slight curve that prevented the gracelessness of the predictable straight line". Ahh… Indeed no one would wish the Wave to destroy such beauty! 

"The king whose name was blasphemous" puzzled me for a while, but then I solved the puzzle. Ar Adunakhor = Lord of the West, right? "

A King in perpetual fear was the worst danger for his subjects, innocent or guilty" is a very wise observation. True. But – why were the Kings in perpetual fear? That is something I can't wholly grasp. They didn't believe in Valar and Eru anymore – so why fear the Faithful? For political reasons only? 

I wanted to thank you for the previous answer. The conception of the link between the God and the City was new to me and not a Tolkien one – but it does make sense.

Good luck and be assured I am always eager for the next update.

Cheers, Aganaphel

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Maeve Riannon - 16 Apr 07 - 1:15 PM

Ch. 6: The Festival of the King

Thanks, once again! Left on my own, I tend to dissociate myself from my readers and just keep writing hysterical historical puzzles. Your reviews prevent this with quite an admirable effectivity. :-P

(And you don´t have to thank me for answering your questions -it´s just part of my Alter-Ego´s retaliation for not being allowed to fill the chapters with obnoxiously long, pedantic and complicated notes) Smile

 Now Eärendur seems to be a nice guy. Scheming, yes, but still very likeable. It is a great achievement to make persons from different camps likeable and nice in their own way.

LOL, if you find Gimilzôr nice you´re quite welcome to him!   ^_- 

And I´m glad I managed to depict Eärendur as something different from a Machiavellian religious fanatic. Tolkien´s vengeful ghost just has that way of coming to me in the dark of the night.... Rolling my eyes

The gardens, the temples and those "small, laberyintic streets, cunningly planned with a slight curve that prevented the gracelessness of the predictable straight line". Ahh… Indeed no one would wish the Wave to destroy such beauty! 

Wow. The fact that you have chosen to highlight this has been quite touching for me. As it happens, my own (and beloved) city inspired me for many different things in this fic, (here is, for example, a drawing of the "temple" described in the chapter, which is a real edifice located here: http://www.uca.es/web/actividades/galeria_virtual/index_html/imagenes/obra12.jpg ) but this particular line was taken quite literally from its urbanism.

why were the Kings in perpetual fear? That is something I can't wholly grasp. They didn't believe in Valar and Eru anymore – so why fear the Faithful? For political reasons only? 

As it happened, the Faithful (through Alissha)had tried to take the throne after the death of Ar-Abattarik, not considering his son legitimate. They are therefore enemies of the Sceptre (though Inzilbêth´s political marriage has briefly made their leaders "acceptable" in Armenelos society), and can be easily suspected at any moment of scheming, having secret contacts with Elves, wanting to murder the King, black magic... you get the drill!

 OK, I will try to update as soon as possible

Maeve

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Aganaphel - 19 Apr 07 - 1:46 PM

Ch. 7: A Nightly Farewell

Well, it was very touching, Maeve.

I am not sure why she decided to part with her son, but I guess it will be explained later. What was in this note that caused such a decision?

Fascinating!

Aganaphel

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Maeve Riannon - 19 Apr 07 - 2:06 PM

Ch. 7: A Nightly Farewell

Well, it was very touching, Maeve.

Er... I´m so glad you liked it. I found it so soppy at first! It was all... urgh. I cannot believe I´m writing this!Sick

I am not sure why she decided to part with her son, but I guess it will be explained later. What was in this note that caused such a decision?

In the previous chapter (Eärendur´s POV), there was this quote:

"And now it was time for him to warn Inzilbêth, even with a letter that would put him at risk, if it was necessary. She needed to know about the prophecy of the serpents."

Anyway, I swear there will be more on this later, as well. You´re not the first to have suddenly felt confused in this chapter.

Once again, many thanks and deep bows!

Maeve

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Aganaphel - 01 May 07 - 12:01 PM

Ch. 9: Last Preparations

Great new chapter, Maeve.

 

So Inziladun has finally grown up. Very interesting Council meeting, and our first meeting with Gimilkhad, his father's favorite. Very good take on Valandil's attitude to Death, so different from the official one and thus strange to Inziladun.  And it was quite moving – first Inziladun's prayer to Uinen then his meeting with his mother. I nearly cried. Bravo!

 And here is something unusual: "Years ago, he had learned that a Númenorean father had to feel seriously disappointed to have a second son, and that in the King´s family this was unheard of since centuries ago." Hmm… is it your addition to the canon, or does it really seem so from "The Lone of Elros?" I don't remember myself. I am looking forward to this trip to Andunie – must be enlightening. Cheers,Aganaphel.

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Maeve Riannon - 01 May 07 - 2:37 PM

Ch. 9: Last Preparations

Hehe- thank you, once more. Smile

As for the Infamous Late Númenorean Birth Control (that´s how it got called somewhere in a private source) -it´s a possibility that occurred to me, considering how few are the children that those people seem to have, and this after living for so many years. It also adds to the list of things that a random Catholic author would attribute to a corrupted people. *whistles* And last but not least, it saved me from having to introduce more characters than was strictly necessary.

As for the King´s family -it technically happened since Ar-Adunakhôr. It is canon in a sense, or rather not uncanonical, because Tolkien mentions no siblings or other family of the later kings.  And the reason is the infamous "prophecy of the serpents" that has been driving Gimilzôr, Eärendur and Inzilbêth insane for a while, but which Inziladûn does not know yet.

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Aganaphel - 08 May 07 - 9:27 AM

Ch. 10: Andúnië

It is a wonderful chapter, Maeve, not too long at all and easy to read, full of interesting new details like the story of Melkorbazer, for instance, and that of Lindorie his wife.  Also a breath-taking description of the castle of Andunie – I bet you have based it on some Mediterranean or a Spanish/Portuguese Atlantic coast fortress. And I loved the description of Mallorns – somehow people tend to forget that there were mallorns in Numenor even bigger than those of Lorien.  No wonder Inziladun was quite dazed being told all the Silm in one sitting! But he seems a strong one, indeed. Now when you have told the readers enough to understand your AU numenor, it has become easier to follow the story.  One single nitpick: "Your father was Melkorbazer, kin to the King in Ar-Zimrathôn´s time." Eärendur continued." I think you meant "your grandfather"? 

Wondrous job, Maeve. Please update!

 

Aganaphel

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Maeve Riannon - 09 May 07 - 11:10 AM

Ch. 10: Andúnië

It is a wonderful chapter, Maeve, not too long at all and easy to read, full of interesting new details like the story of Melkorbazer, for instance, and that of Lindorie his wife

Heh. These are some of the characters I really regret not being able to develop further, but everyone is getting the short end of the stick because of lack of space. Pity.

Also a breath-taking description of the castle of Andunie – I bet you have based it on some Mediterranean or a Spanish/Portuguese Atlantic coast fortress.

Er -actually, this part has no influences I can think of. I was mainly thinking of something that would slightly prefigure Gondor, which is so different from late Númenor.

Now when you have told the readers enough to understand your AU numenor, it has become easier to follow the story.

Oh, I do not like to think of it as AU. I prefer to fancy I am following canon, but Tolkien´s version is a chronicle and mine is the- let´s say development, of what truly happened behind those lines. If I find an affirmation to be humanly impossible, then I alter it (like the lack of religion).

Did it sound believable? *ducks*

One single nitpick: "Your father was Melkorbazer, kin to the King in Ar-Zimrathôn´s time." Eärendur continued." I think you meant "your grandfather"?

I think I meant "Her father" -but sometimes Númenorean inbreeding becomes too much for me. Sick

Thank you very much for all!

Maeve

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Aganaphel - 14 May 07 - 3:01 PM

Ch. 11: Mother of All

Oh... she died! That was so sad and unexpected - but I guess it was her own choice...

I loved the description of the Temple of Uinen. Very well done.

Cheers, Aganaphel

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Maeve Riannon - 15 May 07 - 1:03 PM

Ch. 11: Mother of All

Oh... she died! That was so sad and unexpected - but I guess it was her own choice...

One day, I swear it will be known how she died.

(thought before there will be some random clues pointing at *who* was involved)

I am glad you liked it

 Maeve

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Aganaphel - 28 May 07 - 3:20 PM

Ch. 13: Interlude II: Shadows

Sorry, I have missed your previous update, Maeve - now I have read 2 chapters.

The interlude - is it Gimilzor's POV? It looks like Inzilbeth never loved him - sad.

As for the previous chapter - I loved the interaction of Inziladun and his old friend Maharbal.  The prince has to understand that there are no friends on the road he has chosen... and confiding in someone is quite foolish.

Cheers, Aganaphel 

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Maeve Riannon - 29 May 07 - 10:30 AM

Ch. 13: Interlude II: Shadows

Sorry, I have missed your previous update, Maeve - now I have read 2 chapters.

...one and a 1/10...Smile

The interlude - is it Gimilzor's POV? It looks like Inzilbeth never loved him - sad.

It´s Gimilkhâd´s POV. Remember that he never got to be with her. :(

... and confiding in someone is quite foolish.

Poor guy´s young. ^_^

Thank you for the comments!

Maeve

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Aganaphel - 09 Jun 07 - 12:53 PM

Ch. 14: Turning Points

Wow, what a chapter, Maeve - just blood-chilling in suspense!

However, I can't believe that Inziladun wriggled out of it so easily... His little brother must be a fool indeed. Here Gimilkhad has a golden opportunity to eliminate his older brother once and for all and become a King himself, but no, the fool is content with a golden ring and a vague promise for the future!

The Palantir scene confused me - I am no good at riddles. Who was it Inziladun met over the Palantir? I thought it was Elrond, first, as he gazed further and further on the Shores of Middle-Earth... But then I thought about Gil-Galad.(?) And then I remembered that all the other stones, but the 7, remained in Eressea or Valinor, so perhaps he met Earendil??? Still confused.

Cheers, Aganaphel

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Maeve Riannon - 09 Jun 07 - 2:54 PM

Ch. 14: Turning Points

Thank you, Aganaphel!

The answer to your review contained too many spoilers, so I have made it private.

I hope you will still enjoy the following chapters -in spite of the limitations that the oversized timespan imposes to the narrative. :(

Maeve

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Aganaphel - 11 Jun 07 - 2:39 PM

Ch. 15: Eyes

Very nice chapter, Maeve - I like chapters about bad guys.

So- Gimilkhad has a foster-brother? Interesting...  Also, why was it imprtant whether the musician woman was married or not?

Cheers, Aganaphel

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Maeve Riannon - 11 Jun 07 - 11:21 PM

Ch. 15: Eyes

Hi, Aganaphel!

This chapter is a favourite of mine, too. Sometimes I wonder who´s the bad guy, though. ;)

And since the musician woman was married, it resulted that he had just bedded a married woman. And incurred the wrath of a number of deities as a result, probably.

(Bedding a married woman was considered the worst, and sometimes the only, sexual offence in many ancient societies)

Thanks for reviewing!

Maeve

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Aganaphel - 05 Sep 07 - 12:35 AM

Ch. 19: Departure

Sorry Maeve – I have been away so I couldn't keep up with your story. But now I have read all the brilliant chapters you have posted – loved them all.

The description of the festival in Gadir-Pelargirwith all those funny songs (Ahh… the ditty about Gimilzor's love life!) and the Merchant princes –very interesting and unusual.

The match – I couldn't understand why did Gimilzor chose such an unlikely bride as Zarhil, until there was this part about the curse of the northern line: that they never have sons. Cunning – wasn't it? However, Zarhil and Inziladun seem to get along better than it could be expected. Zarhil is actually quite nice, interesting woman – I understand Gimilzor who likes her. The man should have married her himself as he is now a widower… It would have made his dull life so much more interesting *grin*.

Curious wedding … so alike and in a way so different from that of Inzilbeth. The choking veil – ha-ha: one of the rare cases when Gimilzor felt at a loss.

Sad that about Artanis…I guess she will die an old maid.

Loved that visit to Sorontil. It is another chapter where a place – a mere name in Unfinished Tales – comes alive. Good touch with this mallorn leaf and the vision.

Ar Sakhaltor's piteous life and end are very touching, Maeve. Poor old King! What is this breast-feeding merchant girl, "Child of the Mother", needed for – a future bride for Gimilzor?

Some questions:

Hmm…I wonder about Inziladun's beard. Why did he choose to wear one? Just to be unlike all the others? Strange, that… I think his goal should have been just the opposite - to blend better into the crowd in Armenelos, to cede minor points in order to better preserve his major differences and secrets. Also, wouldn't his strong Elven heritage make him beardless – as the prince of Dol Amroth in LOTR?

Another thing I wonder about is Gadir – it seems that this city is totally opposed to the Lords of Andunie: "When trade with Elves was forbidden, and the Western line was exiled for the first time, annals said that there had been long and magnificent festivities in Gadir." But in the Appendices and the Sil, Pelargir is just the opposite – the abode of the Faithful, while Umbar is the city of the King's men.

And finally, Maeve, please don't get disheartened when you get no comments. I know for sure that I am not alone reading your story. I also have a story here and not a single review. Some people never have time or don't feel in the mood to leave a comment. For a lot of people a story that is based not on the well known Silm and LOTR plots is simply difficult to understand and hard to comment on. I hope you will continue updating. It is getting more and more interesting.

Warmest wishes, Aganaphel

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Maeve Riannon - 05 Sep 07 - 6:47 AM

Ch. 19: Departure

Hi back, Aganaphel! Been missing your detailed reviews enormously.

The match – I couldn't understand why did Gimilzor chose such an unlikely bride as Zarhil, until there was this part about the curse of the northern line: that they never have sons. Cunning – wasn't it?

Well, you said most of it already: Gimilzôr liked the woman, and it was believed that she couldn´t have sons. The third reason was that she belonged to the line of Elros.

Hah. It´s kind of symbolical, really. Couldn´t marry her to his father, couldn´t marry her himself - so he married her to his son.

Ar Sakhaltor's piteous life and end are very touching, Maeve. Poor old King!

Thanks. I strongly wanted him to be pitiful, not hated. Pity that I had to pile more crap upon Gimilzôr in order to achieve that.

What is this breast-feeding merchant girl, "Child of the Mother", needed for – a future bride for Gimilzor?

Gimilkhâd.

Hmm…I wonder about Inziladun's beard. Why did he choose to wear one? Just to be unlike all the others? Strange, that… I think his goal should have been just the opposite - to blend better into the crowd in Armenelos, to cede minor points in order to better preserve his major differences and secrets. Also, wouldn't his strong Elven heritage make him beardless – as the prince of Dol Amroth in LOTR?

Well - precisely! He was infamous because he had visions and saw the feelings of people. He had Elvish features (which almost got him killed when he was born). Wouldn´t it be advisable to wear a beard to hide them from the others and look inconspicuously human?

Also very important: Keeping his beard was a choice he made when he was a rebellious teenager, as a mark of austerity and a show of distance from the new ways of the Court. Later, he might have been keeping secrets, but he was still the leader of the political opposition. Wearing a beard was a discreet symbol for the policies that he advocated (returning to the old ways, favouring landholders over courtiers and intellectuals over priests).

Those things happen when people have to be careful about what they say. In Rome and Byzantium, you couldn´t go yelling your political support for someone in the streets without getting killed, but you could cheer for his team in the chariot races. Here it´s the same - just wear a beard. ;)

But in the Appendices and the Sil, Pelargir is just the opposite – the abode of the Faithful, while Umbar is the city of the King's men.

My version of that city has yet to change its name and its location. This announces a really big upheaval, doesn´t it? Smile

I also have a story here and not a single review.Some people never have time or don't feel in the mood to leave a comment.

What? You have a story here? I checked months ago and I found no stories under your name. Dear... I´ll check it again as soon as I am able!

Thanks for your encouragement!

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Elrûn - 06 Sep 07 - 5:15 AM

Ch. 19: Departure

Just a quick comment from me. I am one of those who are fascinated by your story. Both the interactions and the events you describe shed an interesting light on one Arda's more obscure episodes. Please let me tell you how grateful I am for the efforts you make. The only reason I did not comment before is a general reluctance due to my limited linguistic skills.

Thank you once again,

Elrûn 

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Maeve Riannon - 06 Sep 07 - 1:58 PM

Ch. 19: Departure

Hi, Elrûn!

Thanks for the praise! (bows) I feel honoured by your words, and glad that you are liking my story.

Oh, and don´t worry about your linguistic skills, they look quite fine to me. Is English a second language for you, too?

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Aganaphel - 21 Sep 07 - 12:17 AM

Ch. 21: The Bride of Gadir

Another great chapter, Maeve! Eh, lucky chap this Gimilkhad!

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Maeve Riannon - 21 Sep 07 - 12:59 AM

Ch. 21: The Bride of Gadir

Another great chapter, Maeve! Eh, lucky chap this Gimilkhad!

LOL, no one can have bad luck in ALL departments... that would be highly unrealistic, right? (or Túrin Turámbar) ^_-

Thanks! :)

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Aganaphel - 07 Oct 07 - 2:26 PM

Ch. 22: The Lady Melkyelid

Very nice chapter - everyone seems to be pregnant, even Zarhil. Funny that she couldn't underrstand it! So Pharazon and Miriel are on the way, as well as Numendil's son. (I remember Tolkien wrote this son was in love with Miriel). Curious that they were born the same year,  all three participants of this love triangle. It becomes more and more interesting! Aganaphel

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Maeve Riannon - 07 Oct 07 - 3:14 PM

Ch. 22: The Lady Melkyelid

Hi back! Thanks for liking this and commenting! 

Very nice chapter - everyone seems to be pregnant, even Zarhil. Funny that she couldn't underrstand it! 

That was my pathetical attempt at yet another Bible reference. Before I posted it, I realised it had turned out funny in the end. All the better for the story. :)

So Pharazon and Miriel are on the way, as well as Numendil's son. (I remember Tolkien wrote this son was in love with Miriel).

Actually, if I remember the whole confusing issue correctly, the one who fell in love with Míriel was a brother of the baby who is going to be born now - a brother that did not appear anymore in Tolkien´s later versions, and which I have been forced to discard from this narrative even though I had fully intended to write him at first (It´s even stated in my prologue, fickle thing that I am).

The one who is being born now is Amandil. Tolkien said loads of different things about Amandil, his son Elendil, and birth dates (grrrr!), usually involving changes of generation, but he states in more than one of his versions that Amandil was Ar-Pharazôn´s childhood friend and I decided to stick to that. So I went ahead with that date and state of things and ignored the rest of the versions.

So no, sorry, Amandil is not going to love Míriel. But his life will be complicated enough without that, and tangled with that of the other two.

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Aganaphel - 11 Nov 07 - 10:05 AM

Ch. 23: The Twins

Wow! What a twist - another baby, a son! Very interesting. Strange, though, that Gimilzor hadn't ordered to get rid of both babies, considering that, girl or not, Miriel still had the right to the Crown.

The description of Miriel having Inzilbeth's eyes was very touching. So she had got the jewel - very appropriate.

Also I liked Gimilzor being so "normal" while holding his granddaughter. There is not much that would shake his resolve, it seems.

Thanks for the great chapter, Maeve.

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Maeve Riannon - 11 Nov 07 - 1:10 PM

Ch. 23: The Twins

Strange, though, that Gimilzor hadn't ordered to get rid of both babies, considering that, girl or not, Miriel still had the right to the Crown.

According to the customs of late Númenor, I (as well as Inziladûn himself) doubt very much that she does. The legitimating identification between monarch and guardian god is rendered impossible by her gender. And then, there´s the precedent (the traitor Alissha).

Also I liked Gimilzor being so "normal" while holding his granddaughter. There is not much that would shake his resolve, it seems.

No, he´s finally reaching his goal of perfection. : ( )

Thanks for the great chapter, Maeve.

Oh, no, thanks to you for reviewing, you rule!Heart

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Sirannon - 27 Mar 08 - 10:47 AM

Ch. 25: Three-way Destiny

You really have a talent for writing conciousness, for giving every character its own regrets, its own outlook on life. It is kind of a curious thing to experience, I mean, Tolkien's universe is rather traditionalistic, and this sort of psychology is typically the hallmark of "modern" fiction. But I like it, I like it quite a bit, actually. It is one of the few pieces of fanfiction that I choose to spend my time on. The suspense just keeps me going. 

Thank you for the good work so far. 

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Maeve Riannon - 31 Mar 08 - 2:56 AM

Ch. 25: Three-way Destiny

You really have a talent for writing conciousness, for giving every character its own regrets, its own outlook on life. It is kind of a curious thing to experience, I mean, Tolkien's universe is rather traditionalistic, and this sort of psychology is typically the hallmark of "modern" fiction. But I like it, I like it quite a bit, actually. It is one of the few pieces of fanfiction that I choose to spend my time on. The suspense just keeps me going. 

Thank you for the good work so far.

Thank you very much! Writing in different styles and voices is, I suppose, what keeps the general fanfiction writing experience alive and refreshing.

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