Forum: An Unexpected Discussion? (Or not)

Discussing: Book-Canon perfectionists!

Book-Canon perfectionists!

Was the movie close enough to the book to satisfy the hunger of book lovers? Did the twisting of dates, ages, places, and events, offend the canon followers? Did PJ improve? Disappoint? Should he be begging our forgiveness for building up our hopes then throwing them in the dust, or should we be singing his praises?

 

 

Re: Book-Canon perfectionists!

Personally, I'm fine with it. I'm still not over the lack of the Scouring of the Shire at the end of RotK, personally.

Also, as a side-note- my girlfriend turned to me at the end of Unexpected Journey and said "so when are we watching it again?" despite having been an avowed Tolkien-skeptic longer than I've been alive, so that counts for something, I guess?

 

 

Re: Book-Canon perfectionists!

Anything that brings more fans to Tolkien is good! Yeah, the Scouring of the Shire, or rather the lack of it, bugs me too. The only non-canon scene in the movie (Hobbit) which really annoyed me was the entrance to Rivendell. Well, also the White Council... And the scene with Azog... He was DEAD for pete's sake! And Thorin's entrance... I really wanted to see Richard Armitage get squashed by a fat Dwarf...

 

 

Re: Book-Canon perfectionists!

I'd personally give the film a 6/10, maybe a 7. Martin Freeman was great, Richard Armitage was a good Thorin, Ian McKellen reprised his role as Gandalf wonderfully, the Great Goblin was visually more or less as I had imagined him reading the book, the special effects and soundtrack were mindblowing as always... But that's about it. The changes they made ticked me off.

The Dwarves - Thorin excluded - were a bit too much of a comic relief, in my opinion. Not to mention that the depiction of Ori felt somewhat... awkward at times.

Bringing Azog back from a near-200-year death? The guy is supposed to be dust! Not to mention it was Dáin Ironfoot who battled him, not Thorin. Couldn't they have found some other unknown Orc chieftain who held a grudge against Thorin himself and have him appear in the film? Azog has too much of a history to be a good plot device, methinks.

The scene with Galadriel and Gandalf made me bristle. Sure, the Noldorin Queen of Lorien has power (credit goes to Nenya) and authority, but having Gandalf look so helpless and weak before her? Gandalf?! He is a Maia for goodness sake, more powerful and venerable than any Elf. She should be deferring to him. That's what I disliked most about the film. They raised Galadriel to a goddess without her deserving it. Ugh. Major overreaction there.

Radagast... They made him a complete fool at some point. Sure, he may not have been as cunning as Saruman or Gandalf, or so immersed in the affairs of the world, and he may be easy to manipulate because of his good heart (as proved in The Fellowship of the Ring), but he can't have been so... whacky! A bit too whimsical at times for my taste, while being normal at others.

Plus, sled-rabbits and a moose for Thranduil? That made me laugh. Did they think they were in film!Narnia? Still, the book was written to be a children's book, so no doubt that accounts for the comic relief.

I shudder to think how far the second film will go with this fabricated Tauriel. Captain of the Elven guard?Why all the need to insert girlpower into the plot? I'm female and I dont mind watching films without women fighters. Especially when it's so out of place. Women in Tolkien's works weren't supposed to take up arms (except in the direst of situations). Why not simply go with that, rather than trying to "balance" the genders in such a way? At least they didn't overdo it with Arwen in the film!FotR, and even having her take Glorfindel's place didn't sit quite well with me.
What happened to the subtle ways of showing a woman can also wield power, à la Lúthien or even Eleanor of Aquitaine for example? Maybe I'm overreacting, I'll have to wait and see. The final result might be a pleasant surprise.

OK, I think I digressed here. Anywho, point is that the film could have been better. Of, course, you can't please everyone, and people always tell me I'm very nitpicky over details. I'll still go watch the next installments, to see how they've dealt with the rest. And for Martin Freeman. And for Richard Armitage. Tongue out

 

 

Re: Book-Canon perfectionists!

I'm more or less in agreement with many of your points, but I disagree somewhat on your view of the balance of power between Galadriel and Gandalf.

The scene with Galadriel and Gandalf made me bristle. Sure, the Noldorin Queen of Lorien has power (credit goes to Nenya) and authority, but having Gandalf look so helpless and weak before her? Gandalf?! He is a Maia for goodness sake, more powerful and venerable than any Elf. She should be deferring to him. That's what I disliked most about the film. They raised Galadriel to a goddess without her deserving it. Ugh.

Hardly a goddess. And yes, Galadriel's power is increased by Nenya, but don't forget that she's seen as almost Fëanor's equal in skill in Valinor, that she learned much from Melian in Doriath and is the sister of Finrod (who almost beat Sauron in a sorcerous duel); I think she can be credited with some power of her own.

And while Galadriel certainly knew that the Istari were Maiar, the whole point of sending the Istari was that they weren't supposed to come at Sauron full blast, all guns blazing, but give counsel and advice. It's only after Gandalf is killed by the Balrog that he is sent back in fuller command of his powers; and even then we don't see Galadriel deferring to him; although I don't doubt that Galadriel respects Gandalf both for what he is and for his contributions to the war effort, she's not very likely to automatically defer to him (or anyone, really) .

 

 

Re: Book-Canon perfectionists!

I guess I worded it wrong before, again. OK, the deference and power part was overkill - I just wanted to vent. Yes, that Galadriel is, in fact, one of the most powerful Elves remaining in Middle-earth is something that can hardly be bypassed. She has an iron will and has achieved a lot in her own right. What I was trying to say is that, in the particular scene in the film it appeared to me as though Gandalf was a bit inferior, they overemphasised Galadriel's power. That was my first impression. It is possible I'm just overreacting and am totally wrong. I guess I have to watch The Hobbit again to make sure. Oh Well

Edit: watched said scene on YT again. Turns out I was overreacting. So embarassed!So embarassed!

 

 

Re: Book-Canon perfectionists!

What I was trying to say is that, in the particular scene in the film it appeared to me as though Gandalf was a bit inferior, they overemphasised Galadriel's power. That was my first impression. It is possible I'm just overreacting and am totally wrong. I guess I have to watch The Hobbit again to make sure. Oh Well

Edit: watched said scene on YT again. Turns out I was overreacting. So embarassed!So embarassed!

*Heh* Can happen to anyone - I've had that too with scenes (although PJ's skulls in the extended RotK Paths of the Dead are still too silly for words)

 

 

Re: Book-Canon perfectionists!

*Heh* Can happen to anyone - I've had that too with scenes (although PJ's skulls in the extended RotK Paths of the Dead are still too silly for words)

Good to know I'm not the only one
Oh, yes, those skulls were... can't find the right word for it.

 

 

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