Forum: Writing Mary Sue: the Mother of Challenges

Discussing: Dare I suggest.... Bilbo?

Dare I suggest.... Bilbo?

Go ahead, laugh... I adored him as a child.

I can see him having QUITE a clandestine relationship with the widow Johnson down the road. Every Tuesday, teatime... and people thought they just got together for bridge...





Ariel

 

 

Re: Dare I suggest.... Bilbo?

I can see him having QUITE a clandestine relationship with the widow Johnson down the road. Every Tuesday, teatime... and people thought they just got together for bridge...

So, Ariel...

When do we see this story?

Meg (who can now see why Dwim does this kind of thing... misery and far too much stress loves company)
--

 

 

Re: Dare I suggest.... Bilbo?

Actually, I was suggesting such a thing for one of the real writers of this group.

I have already exposed myself for this challenge, anyway... And that will probably cause as much embarrassment and humiliation as I can take!

Ariel

 

 

Re: Dare I suggest.... Bilbo?

Ahem, whilst not precisely a Mary Sue (as it's part of a larger story), I am writing up a romantic history for Bilbo with another minor canon figure, Menegilda Goold Brandybuck, Merry's grandmother.

Right now, it is all retrospect - the two of them looking back on their youthful romance. At some point [Ang looks at writing projects calendar] in, oh, 2004, I will be writing down the actual romance, which starts at the Old Took's last birthday party in 1320 and goes until Bilbo leaves on his adventure with Gandalf.

To be honest, even in OMY the romance really hasn't ended.

Ang

 

 

Re: Dare I suggest.... Bilbo?

And this is why Rory is all too willing to believe it of Bilbo that Frodo really is his child. [clonks Rory on head, but gently] Familial angst... nothing quite like it. ;-)

I'm glad to hear that this implied little triangle will be elaborated upon, even if we have to wait a year. In the meantime, though... hmm. We really need a "who's your favorite character?" field for people new to the list. That way we can hound--er, invite them in particular when a challenge like this comes up.

 

 

Re: Dare I suggest.... Bilbo?

Yes, Rory is quite a stubborn fool. But with reason. He has turned out to be one of the more interesting minor characters - very persistently making himself a nuisance.

There is a great deal of the past romance in OMY, come to think of it. Mostly how it is not really past. Snicker. Why, yes, I do like tormenting my characters. OMY does have a lot of Bilbo's past in it, but very fragmented, fleeting memories and so on.

But I think a Bilbo romance would be a fine story! And I love Adrienne's Marigold Smile, for a Merry romance. Now, Estella Bolger is little more than a name in the genealogies - does she count as an OFC in under the rules of this Challenge?

Hmm, favorites characters, yes. This might be something to add to the Member Bios - your five favorite charcters, pulled off of the character list? Oh, dear, Dwim STOP IT! I do not need web dev Nuzgul!

Ang

 

 

Re: Dare I suggest.... Bilbo?

I really had never considered a Bilbo romance.... He always seemed such a proffessor Higgin's about the subject of women....

But now that I think of it, I am wondering if a slash Mary Sue wouldn't be fun. He always had a burning affection for the Gaffer, maybe? *snigger*

E.W.

 

 

Re: Dare I suggest.... Bilbo?

That is just sooo NOT what I had in mind...

Just have the decency to label that adequately so those who'd rather not can be sure to avoid accidently starting to read it.

Ariel

 

 

Re: Dare I suggest.... Bilbo?

Actually, I was suggesting such a thing for one of the real writers of this group.

You're in the group, you're a *real* writer (whatever one of those is... I tend to regard myself as a less of a writer, and more of a plotbunny ground zero). So, again, when do we see the story?

Meg (at work, so still feeling evil )
--

 

 

Re: Dare I suggest.... Bilbo?

>Just have the decency to label that adequately so those who'd >rather not can be sure to avoid accidently starting to read it.

*chuckle* Why would I put a warning label on it, Ariel? I might state that the story is of an adult nature.....but I won't warn readers of slashy content anymore than I would warn readers of a hetero climate in a story. I don't see people going "Warning! This story is a hetero romance!", So why would I write "Warning! This is a slash romance!"?

E.W.


 

 

Re: Dare I suggest.... Bilbo?

Because some people don't care for slash... And if you respected your readers' sensibilities you would tell them ahead of time what was in your story.

It is common decency to warn readers about adult content, just as it is to warn them of slash content. I guess I have more respect for my readers than to try and spring something on them that they might object to.

Ariel

 

 

Re: Dare I suggest.... Bilbo?

>"Because some people don't care for slash... And if you respected your readers' sensibilities you would tell them ahead of time what was in your story.

It is common decency to warn readers about adult content, just as it is to warn them of slash content. I guess I have more respect for my readers than to try and spring something on them that they might object to.

Ariel"<





Ariel;

Some readers, don't like hetero fic any more than you like homoerotica....Do you consider it equally rude not to point hetero content out?...Admit it...it's semantics. It is no less rude to NOT warn of heterosexual content than it is NOT to warn of homosexual content.

And if it is, I really want to see you validate that with something more relevant and less.....what was the term you used on me in another Mary Sue post......'self absorbed'...than "Because some people don't care for slash". What you are telling me is that I have to warn you it's slash because people who don't like slash are too immature to open a story, read into it and go..."oh! Oops"...and then leave if they really can't bear to read it. And that, Ariel, is an utter load of crap. I know that several other writers and readers at HA don't particularly care for slash, but they are open minded and mature enough to admit that slash is not bad and slash isn't something I, as a writer, have to shield you from as a reader.

And I am not perpetrating any act of disrespect on my readers by not saying whether my fiction is slash or not. I am offering them the opportunity to experience my story and THEN decide if it is not acceptable to them on it's own merits, not some hokey labeling system.

It does not matter if my readers know that particular bit of info going in because my stories aren't about gay people or straight people, but just "People" in general, and just like in life, the character experiences in my stories (tolkien or SG1) reflect a broad range of experiences, both hetero and slash. That's like saying you want the folks on the street to be labeled hetero or gay on their T-shirts so that you can actively NOT meet the homosexual ones, knowing them by their blantant clothing labels. Is that it on the nose, Ariel?

If you think that there is more to a homosexual person than just their sex life and therefore they shouldn't be labeled JUST because of their sex life, then why not assume that a story that has gay people in it is about more than just the moments of gay sexual encounters, and therefore the story is worthy of better than some base label that sets it apart as though it was wrong/bad somehow?

The only thing I REALLY have any responsibility to tell my readers in order to show them my respect , is my story's relative age appropriateness. To not exclude that would be rude and irresponsible, but nothing else is important in order for a reader to enjoy my stories. I am NOT breaking any moral imperatives by not posting such details as sexual gender association to potential readers, rather I am simply choosing not to pander to your need to categorize things further than is neccessary in order to cencure your own exposure to life's myriadly colorful permutations.

Oh, and I still think the Gaffer would make a very dear twilight Mary Sue for Bilbo....Or should I be warning of geriatric sexual encounters in that, so people who object to old farts grinding the bacon, can safely cover their eyes and pass it by. Ahh, me...Poor Gaffer......

Bye-bye;

E.W.

 

 

Re: Dare I suggest.... Bilbo?






>To not exclude that would be rude and irresponsible, but nothing else is important in order for a reader to enjoy my stories. <


Oops, my fault....I meant "to" exclude, not "to not" exclude. Got to writing very fast and goofed.

E.W.

 

 

Re: Dare I suggest.... Bilbo?

Is that it on the nose, Ariel?

Absolutely - COMPLETELY WRONG... you have NO clue why I dislike such stories and it has NOTHING to do with gay or straight. You are making assumptions based on YOUR prejudices as much as you are assuming I am. You have stated your reasons for liking such things, but from your attitude, I can pretty much tell you couldn't care less what my reasons for disliking them are. Mine are as valid as yours are and they are NOT based on prejudice.

I dislike the fact that my I have had what I view as a complete warping of canon shoved up my nose by people who insist that that is what Tolkien meant. I don't happen to think so. You are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. I don't ask anyone to change what they write, but by the same token, I don't have to read them either. Perhaps if I hadn't been attacked by rabid slashers insisting that their view was the only way to approach the subject, I would have been more open, but I was, and I am not.

Ariel

 

 

Re: Dare I suggest.... Bilbo?

Don't you hate when that happens? I always have to edit my postings because I find a typo *after* I post or think of something else to add that's relevent.

Just to clarify: I would actually like to see the Marty Stu paradigm investigated and dealt with rather like Mary Sue is (hopefully) going to be dealt with through these challenges. However, the challenge specifically states that the main romantic focus must be between a canonical and an original female character. It could be a hopeless romance, and maybe one reason for that hopelessness is that a character is in love with someone else. But Mary Sue is to be the main focus.

What do you think, though? Should we consider doing a Marty Stu/canonical challenge when the Mary Sue Challenge is finished? If interested, please post a thread to "Prospective Challenges" and we'll see what we can do to get it up and running.

Re: the appropriateness of slash labels and interpretations of Tolkien's meaning and intentions for characters, E.W., Ariel: please take this to a separate forum, either your own or a new one that you set up for that purpose. The purpose of this forum is to work on how we might go about writing OFC/canonical stories, not to work out our various opinions about what the status of slash is.

Thanks both for your understanding.

 

 

Re: Dare I suggest.... Bilbo?

Very well - though I doubt any place this forum would be the proper one for accusations of prejudice.

Ariel

 

 

Re: Dare I suggest.... Bilbo?

Oooh Dwim! Nice redirect of the conversation there....
(you so slick>D)

And you know what...Una is right, these animated emoticons rock!

As for the conversation at hand....



>Just to clarify: I would actually like to see the Marty Stu paradigm investigated and dealt with rather like Mary Sue is (hopefully) going to be dealt with through these challenges. However, the challenge specifically states that the main romantic focus must be between a canonical and an original female character. It could be a hopeless romance, and maybe one reason for that hopelessness is that a character is in love with someone else. But Mary Sue is to be the main focus<


In know, I know....But it's hard for me to think of Bilbo in any romance that wouldn't be hopeless, Mary Sue or Stu. He has that whole hopeless Bachelor thing happening, and the only thing I can think of in the way of an OC Mary Sue is either some hopeless romance early on drove him to his bachelor tendancies (pre "Hobbit") or some short romance before he returned to Bag End, while he was partying after the whole Lonely mountain escapade. Who is to say some lake town woman didn't think he was just too cute for words.....

Hmmmm, that could work.... I never loved any character half so much as Bilbo when he snuck into the human encampment by night and gave his unofficial bit of the treasure over to the humans, in order to end the budding strife. What if after the battle was over and he parted from the dwarves, and was on his way back to Bag End, he stopped back by lake town and picked up a "bit of alright" who for some reason, (maybe to escape her father, the ill tempered accountant) came along on their trip back for a little while, giving Bilbo some much deserved Hero Nooggy as they traveled.

Oh, And I just figured out that the edit feature at the bottom of the post enables you back into things to fix typos even after you have posted it......

E.W.

 

 

Tweeeet!

That is the sound of me, in my official striped shirt, calling a halt to the action for a moment.

Please knock this off. This is devolving into the Mindless Slash Debate, which is neither entertaining or new. I don't care who started it, I want everyone to take a deep breath and return to discussing Bilbo/OFC romances.

Play Ball!

 

 

Re: Tweeeet!

I did Mike. I promise...see, a post and everything.....

And I plan on grabbing someone who has a timeline for Bilbo's travels back to Bag End after the Hobbit. I think I might be able to whip out a short ficlet over his travels home with a nifty little Mary Sue from Lake Town. At least I could add it to my own Nazgul hutch. But first I need to get a hold of a new copy of the Hobbit. The only one I have is an original print from the first year it was published, and it ain't in readable condition.

Anyway...Mike...Your whistle is cute.

E.W.

 

 

In Forums

Discussion Info

Intended for: General Audience

This forum is open to all HASA members. It is read-only for the general public.

Membership on HASA is free and it takes only a few minutes to join. If you would like to participate, please click here.

If you are already a member, please log in to participate.

« Back to Writing Mary Sue: the Mother of Challenges