Henneth Annûn Story Archive

Blue Iris Message: 24041 04/25/2004 6:52 AM Original Post Reply WWI POET CHALLENGE - HONORING TOLKIEN AND THE WWI FALLEN When I started taking my writing seriously, I was trying to find some theme, something to base my work on, some foundation for my view of the Ardaverse; because quite honestly, my first attempts at writing fic were crap. I did a good deal of reading on Tolkien; critical essays and the like. I came across a very good essay on Tolkien and WWI: http://greenbooks.theonering.net/guest/files/040102_02.html It got me thinking seriously about my writing, and what it was I wanted to say. It also brought me back to my old love of the Trench Poets of WWI (unashamed Wilfred Owen & Rupert Brooke fangirl). So from there I wandered into WWI history, post WWI history, poetry, social commentary, etc., and found a rather insistant muse. So the challenge is this: The fic: any length from drabble to novel, should be based on a line or lines from the Poets of WWI. First or third person is acceptable. The story must focus on an active participant in the war, someone 'in the trenches' of any rank or status either as combatant or as medical auxiliary. The action does not necessarily need to occur during the war, but if not must be as result of the war, or between battles. The fic should mirror the spirit of the poem that inspires it. Here is what I consider a brilliant example of such a work: http://www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=1444258 Cutoff for the Challenge would be Armistice Day, November 11, 2004. I will be first to accept the challenge and claim the poem The Soldier by Rupert Brooke Marta Message: 24046 04/25/2004 7:34 AM Reply To: 24041 Reply RE: WWI POET CHALLENGE - HONORING TOLKIEN AND THE WWI FALLEN I like this idea, Blue Iris. I have a plan to write a series of vignettes about Denethor's life from Beregond's POV that might fit this -- it is very much inspired by "Dulce et decorum est" and will even be titled by the Sindarin equivalent of that phrase, once I get a proper translation. I also wanted to point out that youur "directory.google.com" link doesn't appear properly in the message. You might want to make these links clickable, at any rate. Try: [a href="URL"]CLICK ME[/a] replacing [ and ] by < and >, where url is the http:// address and CLICK ME is the text you want hyperlinked. Cheers, Marta lindorien Message: 24063 04/25/2004 10:21 AM Reply To: 24041 Reply RE: WWI POET CHALLENGE - HONORING TOLKIEN AND THE WWI FALLEN Hi Blue Iris, I am not certain I understand exactly what you mean us to do with the challenge. BUT - For now, I claim 'Flander's Field' by John McRae. I know it's obvious, but it resonates. I am of simple mind, so I am not certain what it is you want us to write. I THINK I get the idea. It also sounds very interesting. Lindorien lindorien Message: 24074 04/25/2004 12:38 PM Reply To: 24041 Reply RE: WWI POET CHALLENGE - HONORING TOLKIEN AND THE WWI FALLEN Skip my questions, Blue Iris. I get what you are looking for. All right, I just wrote my fic. It's titled 'Poppies' and is in general at the moment. If two more people volunteer, I suppose we are up and running. Great idea, Iris! I hope it flies. best, Lindorien Dwimordene Message: 24080 04/25/2004 3:17 PM Reply To: 24041 Reply RE: WWI POET CHALLENGE - HONORING TOLKIEN AND THE WWI FALLEN I claim Ioreth and "Arms and the Boy." Curse you, I was really not planning on doing this any time soon. Blue Iris Message: 24127 04/26/2004 7:30 AM Reply To: 24046 Reply RE: WWI POET CHALLENGE - HONORING TOLKIEN AND THE WWI FALLEN Thanks for the hint, Marta! Here are some links...proper links... The last is not specific to WWI but is searchable by Poet name and by date. 120 War Poems The First World War - Poets and Prose Representative Poetry Online Tanaqui Message: 24131 04/26/2004 9:36 AM Reply To: 24127 Reply RE: WWI POET CHALLENGE - HONORING TOLKIEN AND THE WWI FALLEN Given how strong many of the WWI resonances in LotR are for me ever since I visited some of the battlefields, I couldn't resist this challenge. My poem is "For the Fallen" by Laurence Binyon and I plan to do something around Sam, Merry and Pippin remembering Frodo. When I have time to write it.... Cheers, Liz dragonlady7 Message: 24133 04/26/2004 10:15 AM Reply To: 24131 Reply RE: WWI POET CHALLENGE - HONORING TOLKIEN AND THE WWI FALLEN Dwimordene hunted me down somehow, which boggles my mind as there's no way she could've known my weakness for this stuff. So I'm in as well. I haven't chosen yet, but it will indubitably be something involving the Rohirrim. I am not yet sure, but am likely to do something with Wilfred Owen and Eomer's survivor's guilt. However, there is a certain appeal to the combination of Owen's "Exposure" and the endless montony of malice faced by Gondor's eastern front. I would love to do something with Joyce Kilmer (listed under Alfred Joyce Kilmer) simply because he was a member of the "Rainbow Division", now the 42nd Nat'l Guard, which is my father's current division, but ... Y'know, I just don't like his stuff that much and sentiment can't overcome it. (Rueful grin.) Sorry, Dad. I am undecided on the precise nature of my poison, but yes, count me in for this adventure. Is that five? --DL7 Marta Message: 24134 04/26/2004 10:15 AM Reply To: 24131 Reply RE: WWI POET CHALLENGE - HONORING TOLKIEN AND THE WWI FALLEN And that would be five: 1. Blue Iris 2. Myself 3. Dwim 4. Lindorien 5. Tanaqui Blue Iris, e-mail me and we'll get the details straightened out. Cheers, Marta Dwimordene Message: 24137 04/26/2004 10:50 AM Reply To: 24133 Reply RE: WWI POET CHALLENGE - HONORING TOLKIEN AND THE WWI FALLEN Dwimordene hunted me down somehow, which boggles my mind as there's no way she could've known my weakness for this stuff. So I'm in as well. The best way to ease the sting of little nuzgul fangs (other than writing the story, that is) is to bring a friend with you. Who else do you know of who would be vulnerable to this sort of nuzgul? I have rope... Forodwaith Message: 24147 04/26/2004 1:02 PM Reply To: 24137 Reply RE: WWI POET CHALLENGE - HONORING TOLKIEN AND THE WWI FALLEN Oh, man. You guys are evil - eeevil, I tell you. I meant to resist and then I saw the long deadline. Surely, I said to myself, I can write something by November? I haven't decided on the exact poem yet, but it will be by either Robert Graves or Siegfried Sassoon. Tanaqui Message: 24152 04/26/2004 1:17 PM Reply To: 24137 Reply RE: WWI POET CHALLENGE - HONORING TOLKIEN AND THE WWI FALLEN Dwimordene hunted me down somehow, which boggles my mind as there's no way she could've known my weakness for this stuff. I wouldn't be so sure - The Dwimmerlaik is a very evil and very powerful sorceror who practices some strong magics. Cheers, Liz alawa Message: 24161 04/26/2004 2:34 PM Reply To: 24137 Reply RE: WWI POET CHALLENGE - HONORING TOLKIEN AND THE WWI FALLEN The best way to ease the sting of little nuzgul fangs (other than writing the story, that is) is to bring a friend with you. Who else do you know of who would be vulnerable to this sort of nuzgul? I have rope... Having already done this with Wilfred Owen's "Futility" for the Memorial Day Challenge I'd normally be easy prey for a nuzgal such as this but, alas, I seem to be immune to all such attacks just at the moment Blue Iris Message: 24181 04/26/2004 10:23 PM Reply To: 24147 Reply RE: WWI POET CHALLENGE - HONORING TOLKIEN AND THE WWI FALLEN Oh, Forodwaiiiithhhhh, (wheedling voice) Siegfried Sassoon! There is the whopper of all nuzgul poems in his body of work. It is screaming for inclusion, simply screaming. Can you hear the scream? It is screaming your name.

 

I found a rather sad one by a fellow named Wilfred Gibson titled "Back": They ask me where I've been, And what I've done and seen. But what can I reply Who know it wasn't I, But someone just like me, Who went across the sea And with my head and hands Killed men in foreign lands... Though I must bear the blame, Because he bore my name. So - I'll raise my hand again for the challenge and do a ficlet around that from the POV of a soldier of Harad, or an Easterling. Anyway, some human fighting for the 'Other Side'. Shall write it next time I need a break. Thanks Blue Iris! Lindorien P.S. - Does anybody have any idea what sort of name a Harad or Easterling might have? When I wrote the OFC for Deepest Blue I used an Indian Name. I suppose I could the same sort of thing. Unless there's something in the canon or one of the apocryphal books that explains a bit more about the language of those lands.

 

Thanks for putting that poem up here - it is a really interesting one. P.S. - Does anybody have any idea what sort of name a Harad or Easterling might have? When I wrote the OFC for Deepest Blue I used an Indian Name. I suppose I could the same sort of thing. Unless there's something in the canon or one of the apocryphal books that explains a bit more about the language of those lands. As far as I am aware (and I have spent ages trying to find information) there is nothing about the names or languges of these lands. The only canon name, I can think of, that could possibly be either of these is Khamul (Nazgul). However, I don't think that there is anything that ever says where he was from. Therefore, I think you can probably do whatever you want without contradicting canon. If anyone else knows more I'd be interested to know it. Nerwen P.S. Although this is an interesting sounding challange I'm NOT volunteering to write for it as I have far too much that I'm supposed to be doing at the moment.

 

P.S. Although this is an interesting sounding challange I'm NOT volunteering to write for it as I have far too much that I'm supposed to be doing at the moment. Well, the challenge runs through November. Surely you could fine time to write a short piece before then? And if not, there's always adopting the oliphaunt... At your service, Marta

 

Well, the challenge runs through November. Surely you could fine time to write a short piece before then? And if not, there's always adopting the oliphaunt... Well, then I can ignore it for now and IF I have more time before November come back... However, I'm trying to finish stories at the moment as I have far too many WIPs and far too little time. Nerwen

 

Thanks Nerwen. I appreciate it. I'll hit up my Indian friends for something Persian or Indian that's appropriate when the time is right. I had NEVER heard that poem before and stumbled on it by accident. But so so tragic. Okay - you're not volunteering. I hear you. Plenty of time to sign up. heh lindorien

 

Update: Still in. Have chosen Owen's "Greater Love", and will address a Theodred-related topic, I think. It's made problematic by Owen's homosexuality; the obvious route to take is not one I would prefer to pursue. This may wind up being quite dark. But it's just so beautiful. And disturbing.

Red lips are not so red       As the stained stones kissed by the English dead. Kindness of wooed and wooer Seems shame to their love pure. O Love, your eyes lose lure       When I behold eyes blinded in my stead!

(Disturbing line from stanza 2: "Your slender attitude / Trembles not exquisite like limbs knife-skewed"... !)

 

Nerwen, Remember that nuzgul you lobbed at me last year on ffn? The 1918 Spanish Flu epidemic as part of my sequel to Anthem? I only figured that I could do you a favor by lobbing one back.

 

Hi, am in Savannah, GA at the moment. Took kids to see what I thought was going to be a horribly boring museum full of planes which was an excellent museum concerning the air war in europe. Tons of stuff on prelude to war, the RAF and the battle of britain and then the american entry and the eighth division. My kids had a rather abrupt intro to Hitler, the Hitler Youth, Nazis, the halocaust and the realities of war, battle, young men dying, POW camps, the atom bomb and then those rows and rows of crosses. My little son said to me - Mommy, its like your story. Cannot tell you how moved I was by the exhibits and how awed the kids were. They are only 7, I hadn't quite expected to teach them so much, so quickly, but they know I write of war and now they are learning about the War of 1812 and the Civil War. Anyway - certainly got me to thinking. Very good challeng Blue Iris. Thanks for thinking of it. Lindorien

 

I've just entered the Challenge, but the wording of it there is different than here. It specifies that it has to be a reflection on one of Tolkien's battles. The language here didn't say that. The character and scenario I had envisioned are not involved in any battle Tolkien himself described in detail, except the one where he dies. (I had come up with some very interesting ideas surrounding Theodred before his death. But the only battle Tolkien describes that he is in is Isen I, wherein he dies. I'm not positive my story would deal with that battle in any detail.) There are other conflicts, which Tolkien indicates would be ongoing, but that is the only battle Tolkien describes in which the character involves himself. Why is the wording of the Challenge so different than the wording in this thread? I am quite confused. I suppose it's not too late for me to adapt the idea. I'm glad I went and looked at the official Challenge before I got any farther into this! DL7

 

I do not think we are limited to the set piece battles in the books. Hostilities were going on long before the major battles and skirmishes were certainly a part of it. Much of WWI poetry is about the deadening wait between battle, poems about picking lice, real mood stuff, the deadening effects of the waiting, more then just the heat of all out battle. Go with your original idea. Theodred was a combatant, and that is what matters. The story can be about his expreiences before his final battle. the important thing is the character. One thing to remember is that many of the trench poets died "in the trenches" and they wrote their poems before their last battles. Writing Theodred some time before his last battle is MORE than in keeping with the spirit of the challenge.

 

I added two of my older stories to this challenge: What the Thunder Said draws on Apologia Pro Poemate Meo by Wilfred Owen; The Burial of the Dead draws on Insensibility by Owen, and also, to a lesser extent, The Parable of the Old Man and the Young. I have another story that uses a poem by Wilfred Owen, but I don't think it suits the parameters of the challenge: The Permanent Stars.

 

Why is the wording of the Challenge so different than the wording in this thread? I am quite confused. Hi DL7 Often the challenge managers work behind the scenes with the challenge originator (in this case, Blue Iris) to produce firm wording for the challenge which differs a little from the idea first proposed in the thread. I suspect the intention behind the change in wording here was to help people focus their stories by encouraging them to write responses that were specific to a particular time in Middle-earth, rather than general meditations on War in the Tolkien-verse. I don't think the phrase "one of Tolkien's battles" is meant to limit you to something he specifically described - or even a conventional battle - but simply to something that took place (or could have taken place) in Midde-earth. Blue Iris certainly seems happy with your idea, and as she is the challenge originator, that's what mostly counts! Cheers, Liz/Tanaqui HASA Welcome and Beta Manager

 

Hi Altariel while I am, of course, very sad you're not going to write something new for this challenge (yes, I know, you have no time!), I'm really pleased you've linked in your existing stories. Cheers, Liz

 

Thanks, Liz. As is always the way with these things, a poem and a story idea sprang straight to mind, and I'm fighting it off with a big stick!

 

The WWI Poet Challenge is now up. You may discuss the challenge here. I'll reply to some of the other recent posts in a separate post. At your service, Marta

 

Altariel wrote: As is always the way with these things, a poem and a story idea sprang straight to mind, and I'm fighting it off with a big stick! *Liz eyes Altariel's big stick and wonders if she can manage to steal it and leave poor Altariel defenceless *

 

Liz wrote: Liz eyes Altariel's big stick and wonders if she can manage to steal it and leave poor Altariel defenceless If you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine...

 

Hello, DL7. Thanks for your interest in the challenge, and I'm sorry if you feel the wording has changed quite a bit. As Liz has already explained, Dwim or I (as Challenge Managers) work with the member who came up with the challenge idea to get the exact wording. Basically, I ask the challenge originator to come up with a challenge prompt and email it to me offlist. Then I will email back suggestions (if I feel it should be tweaked) and we will email back and forth until the challenge originator and I are both happy with it. Sometimes the member has already explained exactly how they see the challenge working; this is how the recent Tagteam challenge worked. When Tenshi_Androgynous was working on that challenge summary, she quoted significantly from her original post. That was fine -- that original post was excellent. Other times, the challenge idea is fleshed out through the thread. So there isn't really a post to quote from in quite the same way. Obviously, the challenge prompt may be pretty different from anything that's specifically been said in the thread. I think that's what happened here. While a challenge idea is in Prospective Challenges, it's just that -- prospective. Until it officially goes up on the site, the exact wording of the prompt can still be changed, so you're always encouraged to check the official challenge prompt and make sure your story will still work. To address your specific question -- Blue Iris has the final say, of course, but remember that with Tolkien exactly what is and isn't canon can get tricksy. Concerning Theodred, there's a lot more set up for Isen I in Unfinished Tales than in Lord of the Rings, and it's clearer from Unfinished Tales that Theodred was involved in ongoing warfare in the Eastfold, not just a specific battle. So any battle you want to create during that time period is, as far as I am concerned, a "Tolkien battle." If a certain battle situation is probable or reasonable, even if Tolkien didn't specifically describe it, I'd say go for it. Do you feel that the wording of the challenge prompt needs to be changed to make this clearer? If so, how would you suggest it should be changed? At your service, Marta HASA Challenges Manager

 

Siegfried Sassoon! There is the whopper of all nuzgul poems in his body of work. It is screaming for inclusion, simply screaming. I *think* I know which poem you mean, Blue Iris, but can you tell me the one you're thinking of in case I've got it wrong?

 

Forodwaith, Continuing this one in our new challenge forum, ok? Iris

 

Remember that nuzgul you lobbed at me last year on ffn? The 1918 Spanish Flu epidemic as part of my sequel to Anthem? I only figured that I could do you a favor by lobbing one back. Yes, but I have exams and not enough time to write, especially not time to spend hours looking for the poem. (and I do intend to get as far as reading more of it - just got so far behind and didn't have time to sit down and read it all ... I promise I'll write you a proper review when I have time to read it all. ) Nerwen

 

No, no, it's fine as it is! I was simply quite startled because I'd developed rather a different understanding from the thread. I am confident I can develop this idea for the challenge either as stated officially and as discussed informally. I look forward to it. I've already noticed that my take seems to be a whole heck of a lot more bitter than most of the rest of y'alls. This should be interesting, once people start putting chapters up. Quite a diverse group, though. Most interesting.

 

I would love to try this as well. Could you, please, post the links to the poetry sites, again? This is a wonderful idea, Blue Iris! Cheers, Starlight

 

Starlight, I am going to post the links in the Challenges Forum under Story Discussions.

 

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