Forum: Languages in Arda

Discussing: Sindarin Translation

Sindarin Translation

Hi all I've been looking some language resources and seem to have a hard time coming up with how you would say "dear son" in Sindarin (that would be as an endearment, not as the start of a letter ) Dragon Flame gives "mell" or "muin" for translations for "dear" which would I use? Would it come after "ion" (son) like "my son" is "ion nin" ion mell? ion muin?? Am I WAY off? Do I hear laughing at my butchering of Sindarin? Argh! (g) Drat the elves and their muses! Cheryl

 

 

Re: Sindarin Translation

We already have attested muindor and muinthel for 'dear brother' and 'dear sister' -- why not stick with the precedent and make it muinion? -Aerlinnel

 

 

Re: Sindarin Translation

Well, that works as a name only, Aerlinnel. In taking "dear" as an adjective, proper Sindarin syntax would have it be ion muin as two words. I suppose it depends on how you want to use it, really. If it's in the middle of a sentence, though, you probably want to stick with the syntax. If it's just a name or nickname, you could take it either way. *slouches off to find her morning caffeine...* Bado na siidh. Berz.

 

 

Re: Sindarin Translation

that works as a name only Where is that stated? What evidence is there that it isn't like English goodman or goodwife? And as long as we're on proper Sindarin syntax, it ought to be ion vuin with lenition of the postpositional adjective.

 

 

Re: Sindarin Translation

Where is that stated? Adjectives come after their subjects; Parth Galen, Ered Nimrais etc. The rule seems to be somewhat relaxed when it comes to proper names, but if you're saying "he is a good man." in English, you would say "is he a man good." in Sindarin. And yes, it should have the soft mutation. Thanks for catching that. I was running off of memory when I wrote that and for some reason I was remembering the mutation of M staying the same. Bado na siidh. Berz.

 

 

Re: Sindarin Translation

Yes, I realise that adjectives generally follow the nouns that they modify -- that wasn't my question. Since there's already a precedent set for nouns occasionally appropriating their adjectives as affixes, I'm asking how you can state definitively that such formations are only used as vocatives?

 

 

Re: Sindarin Translation

Because that's where they're seen. I had a long conversation with someone about this some time ago. We decided that neither of us had ever seen anything not a proper name that didn't put the adjective after its subject. Of course, I can state nothing absolutely definitvely. It's a fictional language, after all, and as such it's incomplete. You can e the best lingusit in the world and still not manage to cover everything when making up a fictional language. But everything I've come across (which is a LOT) seems to indicate that this Sindarin syntax rule is only relaxed if it's a proper name. Bado na siidh. Berz.

 

 

Re: Sindarin Translation

You're basically right on that. (Forgive me for butting in here, but well, c'est la vie...) In general, the languages Tolkien invented, specifically the Elvish tongues, the adjectives work much in the same way as a lot of European languages. For example, if you take French: you're saying "the red dog" in English, and you say "the dog red (le chien rouge)" in French. Elvish works the same way. Take "Dagor Aglareb", for example. It's translation is "the Glorious Battle", while it's literal inscription is "the Battle Glorious", as "dagor" is battle and "Aglareb" is glorious. "Nan Tasarion" does the same, running as "Willow Vale" but reading as "Valley Willow". "Nan" is "valley", "tasare" is "willow", and "-ion" is the place name suffix. Same with "Illuin" - it means "Blue Star", and is read as "Star Blue". But - here's a slightly more professional take on the matter. The following is taken from the "Pedin-Edhellen" Sindarin course by Thorsten Renk, promoted on the Elvish Linguistic Fellowship, and on his own site, Parma Tyelpelassiva. Don't sue me!! ***** Adjectives decribing a noun usually follow this noun (they can only come before the noun in poetic word order) and are in this position lenited. But adjectives may also function as adverbs and be for this or for a different reason accidentally behind a noun. If there is no connection between adjective and noun, there is also no lentition. ... Some examples: ylf dawaren (a wooden drinking-vessel) ylf tawaren (a drinking-vessel is wooden) ylf dewerin (wooden drinking-vessels) ***** I hope this helped answer your question regarding the situation... If you need information on the forming of such adjectives, I can post that up; just ask. This post is getting long enough as it is. Vanya sulie... ~ Elwen

 

 

Re: Sindarin Translation

Thanks everyone for all the great information Cheryl

 

 

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