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Discussing: The ending of th world

The ending of th world

why is that men are promised a place in the second music and not the the Eldar? what happens to the Eldar at the end of the world? are they just forgotten? or is it that after the world is mended the elves will dwell in ME while men stay in Amen? just thinking aloud here any thoughts would be a great help



Re: The ending of th world

Hmm. I thought a little research would help, and was surprised that it only generated more questions. :/ AFAICT, when Arda ends, the Elves end, either totally, or as corporeal entities. Certainly at that point ME and Aman would end, if I'm reading things correctly. My impression (theology/philosophy is not my strong suit) is that Eru has some other plan for Men, entirely outside of Arda. From HoMe 10 'Athrabeth': " Beyond the 'End of Arda' Elvish thought could not penetrate, and they were without any specific instruction. (Author's Note 6, p. 341) It seemed clear to them that their hroar must then end, and therefore any kind of re-incarnation would be impossible. (Author's Note 7, p. 342) All the Elves would then 'die' at the End of Arda. What this would mean they did not know. They said therefore that Men had a shadow behind them, but the Elves had a shadow before them. "Their dilemma was this: the thought of existence as feär only was revolting to them, and they found it hard to believe that it was natural or designed for them, since they were essentially 'dwellers in Arda', and by nature wholly in love with Arda. The alternative: that their feär would also cease to exist at 'the End', seemed even more intolerable. Both absolute annihilation, and cessation of conscious identity, were wholly repugnant to thought and desire. (Author's Note 8, p. 343)" "5. Elvish 'immortality' is bounded within a part of Time (which he would call the History of Arda), and is therefore strictly to be called rather 'serial longevity', the utmost limit of which is the length of the existence of Arda. (Author's Note 2, p. 337) A corollary of this is that the Elvish fea is also limited to the Time of Arda, or at least held within it and unable to leave it, while it lasts."



Re: The ending of th world

Thanks so much for the help. i am planing to write a story that spans many ages and not having my coppies of HoME with me at the moment (i am the middle of moving back to u.s. after 9 years aboard) i have to rely on the kindness of others for the moment if you have any qestions i may be able to help with please feel free to ask



Re: The ending of th world

Even as Finrod speaks of death, he moves on to offer words of hope (P 319): ‘For ever as we spoke of death being a division of the united, I thought in my heart of a death that is not so: but he ending together of both. For that is what lies before us, so far as our reason could see: the completion of Arda and its end, and therefore also of us children of Arda; the end when all the long lives of the Elves shall be wholly in the past. ‘And then suddenly I beheld as a vision Arda remade; and there the Eldar completed but not ended could abide in the present forever, and there walk, maybe, with the Children of Men, their deliverers, and sing to them such songs as, even in the Bliss beyond bliss, should make the green valleys ring and the everlasting mountain-tops to throb like harps.’ ***** And this from the commentary (P 332): “Therefore in the last resort the Elves were obliged to rest on ‘naked estel’ (as they said): the trust in Eru, that whatever He designed beyond the End would be recognized by each fëa as wholly satisfying (at the least). Probably it would contain joys unforeseeable. But they remained in the belief that it would remain in intelligible relation with their present nature and desires, proceed from them and include them.” ******* So, even though the Elves could not reason their way to any likelihood of life beyond the End, still, they held to hope – and trusted in Eru’s goodness that their lives would not end along with Arda marred. Now this seemed to pertain to the Noldor who had walked and talked with the Valar in Aman – how much this would apply to the other kindreds of Elves is another question. Ithildin *(



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