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Discussing: Translation Needed!

Translation Needed!

Could someone please help translate as many of these phrases they can into Quenya and/or Sindarin? It would be a huge help. My love We shall meet again/You and I shall meet again Even the wise cannot see all ends May it be an evening star shines down upon you A promise lives within you There is always hope White shores are calling Don't say we have come to the end Believe and you will find your way THANKS

 

 

Re: Translation Needed!

Here's a link to Taramiluil's Sindarin Phrasebook - you should find some of these phrases (or something close enough to work) already translated here - . Phrasebook and she has also translated 'Into the West' here - Into the West Tara's translations are good and she has studied the languages deeply. I consider them pretty reliable (though like every other Tolkien language scholar/enthusiest, her translations represent one viewpoint and there will be others who disagree on how it should be done.) Let us know which phrases you still need and we'll work on them for you. Ithildin *(

 

 

Re: Translation Needed!

One thing... DOH! How could I forget 'my love' in Sindarin? >< *thwacks self* (oh BTW, is it 'meldanya' in Quenya?) Thanks for the links- HUGE HELP! Most of the phrases are pretty much covered, except for... Even the wise cannot see all ends May it be an evening star shines down upon you A promise lives within you There is always hope Believe and you will find your way TIA

 

 

Re: Translation Needed!

Yay! Found some more phrases! That leaves... Even the wise cannot see all ends There is always hope TIA

 

 

Re: Translation Needed!

I'll give these two a go. Feel free to correct me, folks. I haven't translated anything of substance for a few months. I might be a little rusty. Even the wise cannot see all ends. Ú-tirar in-saelyn mith pain. This has complications as I know of no Sindarin word for "even." This phrase is actually "the wise see not all ends" when translated litterally. There is always hope. Na ennas estel ui. The complication with this one is that the verb "to be" is very seldom used in Sindarin. So seldom, in fact, that when I took the class I took, the teacher never even gave it to us in any vocab. I've included it here (that's what na is), but I think it's also grammatically correct just to drop it. Anyone know better than me on this one? Na- has always confused me a little. Hope some of that helps. ^_^ Bado na sídh. Berz.

 

 

Re: the verb 'to be'

Hi Berz, Well, I wouldn’t claim to know better than you, but I’ll add my two cents on the topic as I understand it. I would agree, the verb ‘to be’ can be left out of almost all sentence constructions. The Sindarin translation of the Lord’s Prayer was published in VT 44 in 2002 and is apparently the first published example including Tolkien's use of the verb na- (to be). It seems the opinion of most Tolkien language scholars is that the S. verb na- would likely be irregular, and we don’t have enough to go on to even guess what its conjugated forms would be, so most recommend simply avoiding its use unless absolutely necessary. The only exception would be the attested imperative form. Of course, one can just use regular conjugation – for lack of any other – when the translation really requires the verb. In the case of Na ennas estel ui. I think you could go either way. My only questions about your translations would have to do with sentence word order – an area that I am still more than a little fuzzy on. If you don’t mind sharing - what rules did you learn in your course about word order? Ithildin *(

 

 

Re: the verb 'to be'

Thanks for the info on "to be." ^_^ My only questions about your translations would have to do with sentence word order – an area that I am still more than a little fuzzy on. If you don’t mind sharing - what rules did you learn in your course about word order? According to the notes I have left over from the course, normal word order in Sindarin is the following; Verb, (optional adverb), subject, direct object, indirect object, (more optional adverbs). Direct objects and indirect objects are counted as noun phrases and so could include an adjective as well. In general, adjectives come after the noun they modify, like in French. But, pronoun objects precede their verbs, as in the case of "I sing to you" which comes out as le linnon. It's also interesting to note that often times the subject pronoun isn't needed. The way verbs are conjugated, most often they'll be left off. However, if you want to stress the subject or render it as some sort of an exclamation, you could include the subject pronoun and that would have the desired effect. Some other stuff... A noun precedes a relative clause modifying it. The example I have is "the star that I see." It comes out as i-ngil i genin. Relative clauses then cause a mutation in the noun. If the noun is sigular it's a soft mutation, if the noun is plural it's a nasal mutation. In the case of noun phrases consisting of noun and adjective, when the noun is made plural in the vowel-change form (that is, not the -ath form), the adjective that modifies the noun also undergoes vowel change. In point of fact, the adjective will also undergo the vowel change even if the noun is made plural using -ath. Thus, the plural of pin galen is pinnath gelin while the plural of orod mithren is eryd mithrin. Hope that's clear. A linguist, I am not, I'm afraid... ^_^; Bado na sídh. Berz.

 

 

Re: the verb 'to be'

Thanks Berz, I'll study those rules. That should keep me busy for awhile! Ithildin *(

 

 

Re: the verb 'to be'

Thanks for the translations and info guys! I'm still working on my Quenya, so it'll be a while before I even touch Sindarin!

 

 

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