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Discussing: Quick question for Sindarin experts

Quick question for Sindarin experts

I want to translate the following sentence into Sindarin: "Release the bowstring with your breath." I found the words but I have problems with how to arrange the two objects behind the verb. And since "with" is not a preposition, but a prefix in Sindarin, matters are not exactly simplified either. And what about the possesive pronominal ending? The construction I have created is: _Go-leithiach hwest-cîn i dang_ It sounds horribly wrong, like an Orc trying to speak Sindarin ;) So please, tell me the right sentence *begs* TIA Makamu P.S. And I am not even writing about an Elf, by Elbereth! Cursed be thy Elvish upbringing, Estel! *shakes fist at her favourite character*



Re: Quick question for Sindarin experts

We know so little about the pronouns; it’s hard to say what is ‘right’, especially the second person familiar forms. I’m guessing that the form _cîn_ should be lenited here – c>g. Leitho i dang gochwest gîn. Release the bowstring with your breath. I recommend the imperative form of the verb and the prefix _go-_ would probably work better with the noun than the verb. -another possibility- Leitho i dang i ‘ochwest lîn. Release the bowstring with the breath your. This form of using the definite article (‘the breath your’) is seen in the Sindarin Lord’s prayer. I like the sound of it here. I believe David Salo avoided the problem of the unknown 2nd person pronoun forms in the movie dialogue by using only the attested forms of _le_ and _lîn_ and making no differentiation between respectful or familiar forms. This has been my usual approach also, though many others will disagree. Ithildin *(



Re: Quick question for Sindarin experts

Thank you for the info, Ithildin My Sindarin course had _go_ attached to the lenited and conjugated form of the verb, but all the examples had one object not two, as in the sentence I wanted. I think, I will adopt the "David Solo" solution as well and clarify whether it signifies formal or substitutes familiar forms through the English rest of the scene and the translation in the notes. Makes life easier ;) Thank you for you kind help and patience with stupid me Maka



Re: Quick question for Sindarin experts

No, you are not 'stupid', there is a lot to learn, even with as little as we know about the language. I don't claim to be an expert (one of the others will probably come along and correct my mistakes any time now...) I usually miss something. But I am trying to learn more as I go along. I'll look into the usage of _go-_ a little more, I have been kinda busy, and get back to you. If your Sindarin 'course' happens to be Pedin Edhellen, it's probably right. So, hang on a bit longer and I'll try to get it straight. Ithildin *(



Re: Quick question for Sindarin experts

Well, I won't try to correct anything Ithildin said, but I did find another thing to toss into the mix, here. I found something that's listed as a conjunction for "with." It's found in the title Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth and apparently there's some debate over it (my trusty resource is giving me reams of information that I barely understand and citing sources in Tolkien that I don't have access to), but apparently ah is one of the things established for "with." Also listed is the preposition I've been using as a part of my own tag, na. But that is also listed as having the meaning of "to" or "towards" (part of why I chose it... a little play on words ^_^ ). And there isn't so much info about it in my trusty. It lists as reference the Etymologies and Glofindel's cry of "Ai na vedui, Dúnadan!" which I've always seen translated as "Ah, it is at last, Dúnadan!" So, I guess, draw whatever conclusions you want to from that. And, to add even more intrigue, my trusty gives go- as having a meaning of "together." More or less the same thing, I guess, depending on who you might talk to. *shrug.* Bado na sídh. Berz. Edit: I totally forgot my own take on a translation, given all that! I'd do it Leithio i dang ah thúl lín. I used the word thúl for "breath" because the impression I'm getting for hwest is more a sense of "wind." Which might come in handy if you wanted to say something along the lines of "release the bowstring with your big bag of hot wind," but I don't think that's what you're going for, ne? Anyhow, the former simply means "breath" while the latter means "puff, breath, or breeze." Again, I shrug. - BP



Re: Quick question for Sindarin experts

Maka, I hope you haven’t given up on this. Sorry this is taking so long, but RL has been a bit of a bear lately. I finally posted the question over at the lotr plaza language forum and am awaiting a reply, so I should have an answer for you soon.



Re: Quick question for Sindarin experts

Maka, Seems that attaching the prefix _go-_ to a noun indicates a ‘collection of something’, so for this meaning it is better to attach it to the verb. However, the construction of the sentence was too complex and just didn’t work, so this suggestion was offered instead: Leithio i dang ir leithiach thûl lín. "Release the bowstring when you release your breath." Which is better than what I had anyway. :-) url for the discussion - if you are interested: thread title: Language Help Desk 41 – look for posts by Ithildin55 (me) and Beren and Thorond (Thorsten Renk, author of Pedin Edhellen): Ithildin *(



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