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Discussing: Sindarin names for two 4th age locations

Sindarin names for two 4th age locations

I'm trying to come up with Sindarin names for Legolas' domain in Ithilien; and Faramir & Eowyn's house in Emyn Arnen. I don't think that JRRT ever gave a name to either place; do correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, I thought that a Sindarin name meaning "Bright Wood" of "Bright Forest" would be appropriate for Leggy's domain; depending on how it sounds. And I believe that Tolkien specified somewhere that Faramir's house was built out of white stone (the type used in Minas Tirith) - anyone know where he said it - so I was thinking something along the lines of a Sindarin word meaning 'White Hall' or White House' or 'White Hill' (white being the Stewards' banner-color, also Faramir calls Eowyn 'White Lady').... RAKSHA

 

 

Re: Sindarin names for two 4th age locations

Here are a few suggestions for you: Eryn Gelair – Brilliant Wood Eryn – wood (plural used as singular) Celair – brilliant (c > g lenition) Eryn Vain – Fair Wood Bain – fair, beautiful (b > v lenition) Tham Faen – White Hall Faen – radiant white; Tham – hall Faintham - Whitehall Fain – white; Tham – hall Or a possibility using a reconstructed word - arnost: Gloss-Arnost – White Palace Gloss – snow white, dazzling Arnost – castle, palace (noble-house: ara-, nost) Others may have more suggestions and/or corrections, Ithildin *(

 

 

Re: Sindarin names for two 4th age locations

THANX, Ithildin! Btw, what does "lenited/lenition" mean? I've seen the term on the various language sites I've poked around, but don't know exactly what it means. RAKSHA

 

 

Re: Sindarin names for two 4th age locations

This is no formal definition of lenition since I am no linguist, but at any rate, lenition means the spelling/sound of a word changes if it appears with a posessive adjective, a definite article, if it is the dependent form of a verb in some cases, if it is a verb in certain tenses with certain pronouns, and a million other reasons I either don't know or cannot remember. It is somewhat evil for English speakers to learn. For example, if you were to say "the people of Kerry" (a county in Ireland, which in Irish is Ciarri), you would say "muintir Chiarri." The ch makes a hebrew/yiddish ch-sound. The lenition in this case signifies the posessive. Adjectives with feminine nouns also get lenited. For example, the word "big" is "mor," but to say "a big woman," you'd say "bean mhor," which is pronounced "war." Another example that I can think of off the top of my head is the future tense of the verb "to be." To say "I will," you say, "beidh me." To say "I will not," you say, "Ni bheidh me," and the b-sound becomes a v-sound. There are a million other reasons for lenition, but I do not have my Irish notes in front of me But that is probably more than you ever wanted to know.

 

 

Re: Sindarin consonant mutations

Hi, well, I’m no linguist either, far from it! And I agree, the consonant mutations (of which ‘lenition’ is only one) are tough for English speakers to grasp. Gypsum, thanks for the glimpse into Irish! Since Tolkien modeled Sindarin somewhat on Welsh (Middle Welsh?) the consonant mutations do take similar forms. In Sindarin, lenition (also called ‘soft mutation’) causes the initial consonant of a word to change. Originally I believe, this was to make certain consonant clusters easier to pronounce. In the internal history of the language some mutations may have become grammatical markers, as seems to be the case in some of the Irish examples provided by Gypsum. This happens following such particles as the definite article and prepositions; in adjectives following the nouns they modify; in direct objects and verbs following their subject, and sometimes in the second element of compounds. Thus _Las_ ‘leaf’ + _calen_ ‘green’ becomes _Lasgalen_ as the ‘c’ lenits to ‘g’. Some words and situations trigger other types of mutation and it becomes less of a mystery when you begin to see the patterns emerge. Ithildin *(

 

 

Re: Sindarin consonant mutations

Actually, we do a certain amout of mutations in English, too. They're just not nearly so numerous as they are in other languages. For example, the plural of Elf or calf is not Elfs (although, there's some discussion over that, but I'm firmly in the mutation camp, 'cause it's just a cool phenomenon ^_^ ) or calfs, but Elves and calves. Here, the f sound becomes a v sound because an s sound is appended. Let's hear it for the Norman invasion, everyone! Also, there are certain words that undergo mutation within the word itself to indicate plural. Take the plural of goose. It's not gooses, but geese. The pair of vowels in the middle of the word change from o to e. That's how all plurals in Sindarin work. The word for "Man" is Adan and it changes to Edain for "Men." Bado na sídh! Berz.

 

 

Re: Sindarin names for two 4th age locations

Would "Gelair" in 'Eryn Gelair" be pronounced with a hard or soft 'G'? Raksha

 

 

Re: Sindarin names for two 4th age locations

It would be pronounced with a hard 'g' as in 'gate'. The 'ai' would be pronounced like it is in 'aisle'. The 'y' takes the sound of 'u' in French 'lune' - like saying ee (as in 'see') with your lips rounded like you were going to say 'oo'. And the accent would be on the first syllable of each word. Ithildin *(

 

 

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