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Discussing: Ch. 13 - Relations

Ch. 13 - Relations

Relations Continuing with Denethor. Slight warning on chapter for unsavory family relations. He and Thorongil get to have a couple of conversations in this chapter, leaving each with more questions than answers. Mostly, I use this chapter to develop more family backstory for the Stewards, which provides better context for Denethor's actions. Ang

 

 

Re: Ch. 13 - Relations

Very nice. Read it twice. Haven't spotted much by way of errors. Those are easier to spot on a later reading once I'm less concerned with what you meant and more concerned with what you really said. Here's one: ‘By all whom oppose the Shadow.’ By all who. Who oppose, are opposed by whom-- the who is the active form of it, whom passive. That's the best way I can think of to explain it. If one is doing something, that one is a who; having something done to one makes that one a whom. ‘I met with the Steward, as asked, at the fourth hour. He was… unpleased that you were not present. Unpleased isn't a word, and displeased is, but if you meant to have Thorongil speak thus (it fits, after a such a hesitation) then I shan't argue. ‘Yes. I thought, perhaps, that no one would wish to disturb you in your sleep and not know something was amiss.’ The phrasing is awkward and doesn't quite say what it ought to. "I thought, perhaps, that as no one would wish to disturb you in your sleep, none would realize if something was amiss." That's all I can see for now. -- DL7

 

 

Re: Ch. 13 - Relations

Glad to get a new chapter. I've only gone through it once, so I may have more comments later. For now: Would Brandir in fact pack for Denethor, or would he have one of the men do it? "Refraining from common gossip was well to the good," did you mean "all to the good"? "but the man seemed oblivious to the workings of power in the territories he commanded." To me, this implies that Thorongil is actually the ruler of these territories, as opposed to the garrison commander. Depending on how medically accurate you want to be, we could discuss the dilated pupil. Lyllyn

 

 

Re: Ch. 13 - Relations

Great chapter! I was not happy to find the update e-mail in my junk mailbox... lucky for MSN, I caught it before much time elapsed. I am always excited about new chapters and they definitely make the day! Bearing in mind that you seem to have enough proofreaders, I’ll refrain from error hunting. I read rather quickly and my mind works out the small flaws before I even see them, so unless I reread slowly, mistakes are missed. My grammar… it isn’t so great! So, I wouldn’t be much help in that arena. Hmmm, don’t end sentences with a preposition. I think that is a rule—or something. Some English major I am! *slinks away* I have to say the scene where Denethor prepares Isilmo for departure is in my (humble) opinion, the best written sequence I’ve read in a very long time. I was quite impressed! (I lost hold of a balloon today and was enthralled to watch its ascension… while laughing hysterically, so… Admittedly, I am impressed with curious situations.) It was strongly in character; the sarcasm laced with insults befitted Denethor very well. A+ work on the entire homecoming sequence! I was also struck by Thorongil and Denethor’s theological discussion and Denethor’s internal dialogue in response to Thorongil’s optimism. While Thorongil speaks, Denethor finds his heart almost believing, but the inevitable silence that follows fills him again with doubt. I have personally experienced this! Not such a positive experience, but I have to congratulate you on your keen observations of life and not-so-cliché emotions and thoughts of the characters involved in your story. Great chapter and keep up the good work! I’ll be looking forward to the next chapter, as always. Ever think of writing a novel? I strongly suggest it! Only after my beloved story is completed, of course. ;) You have a great talent at foreshadowing, makes me green with envy. Great work with complicated relationships, also. Ahhh, I love this story. Good luck! Lady of Tremaine

 

 

Re: Ch. 13 - Relations

Bearing in mind that you seem to have enough proofreaders, I’ll refrain from error hunting. Though I'm always happy to get them. Well, maybe not *happy* but grateful for the attention. I'm still digesting DL7's incredible write up on the earlier chapters. I have to say the scene where Denethor prepares Isilmo for departure is in my (humble) opinion, the best written sequence I’ve read in a very long time. .. It was strongly in character; the sarcasm laced with insults befitted Denethor very well. A+ work on the entire homecoming sequence! It was a giggle to write, I'll admit. Denethor has a very wicked sense of humor that tends to come out most when in Maiaberiel's company. I have another scene in an upcoming chapter that I think you'll like. With the siblings, there is always this balance between how much they loathe each other and a very real enjoyment of matching wits. If they did get along, I would fear for all of Middle-earth... I was also struck by Thorongil and Denethor’s theological discussion and Denethor’s internal dialogue in response to Thorongil’s optimism. While Thorongil speaks, Denethor finds his heart almost believing, but the inevitable silence that follows fills him again with doubt. Where is there hope in the face of Sauron's return? It is both an philosophical and a physical problem, and Thorongil is the answer in each case. But he can't say anything directly (or so he thinks) so Denethor is left in doubt. The next chapter has another discussion like this. Denethor's doubt , how he tries to answer it and how this affects his relations with Thorongil, is a constant theme in HotK. Denethor does find hope, of a kind. It is not precisely *false* hope, but too fragile to bear up. I'm so glad you are enjoying the story. I'm working on both my newest first-draft chapter (the wedding!) and a rewrite of chapter 14. With luck, they will both be done by the end of the month. Lyllyn has asked for a character appendix, which is (slooooowly) in the works. Thanks for your comments! Toodles - Ang

 

 

Re: Ch. 13 - Relations

Just found this story and read up through chapter 13. I'll admit that I had trouble in the first couple of chapters placing all the characters and keeping them straight -- there are a lot of them, plus the problem of similar names! But after that, I had to read straight through, neglecting house and home! It's obvious that you have spent a lot of time constructing the economic, political, and family structures that make this story so real, and I look forward to future chapters!

 

 

Re: Ch. 13 - Relations

Whoops - sorry I didn't see this post earlier! I am going to have a character appendix soon, promise. Lyllyn says I'm grounded if I don't. Check out chapter 14 - Salvage, posted today. Toodles - Ang

 

 

Re: Ch. 13 - Relations

Falling behind on my replies... Would Brandir in fact pack for Denethor, or would he have one of the men do it? Given Brandir's character, he would do this himself as a service to Denethor. Brandir is not one to stand on ceremony, he is concerned about Denethor's health, knows how Denethor doesn't like people waiting on him, and understands that there is a need to prevent anyone thinking that there is something seriously wrong. Brandir is more sensitive to the political rammifications of Denethor being injured than Thorongil is, since he's witness to more of the political infighting, though both are very concerned about this injury. "Refraining from common gossip was well to the good," did you mean "all to the good"? Maybe. I do tend to modify common cliched phrases and throw in idiosyncratic speech. Playing with words... Depending on how medically accurate you want to be, we could discuss the dilated pupil. Sure, I'll discuss it. I may not include the details, but it's always good to know about them. Toodles - Ang

 

 

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