Forum: Hands of the King

Discussing: Ch. 9 - Waiting

Ch. 9 - Waiting

Waiting Finduilas POV chapter. Something that is always irksome to me in much fantasy writing (not just fanfic) is how incompetant and/or stereotyped the women are. While there are clearly gender roles and mores, the tendency is to portray women as fundamentally passive within a society, as home bound wives and mothers or else as shrews and whores, but almost always as people who do not have lives and concerns independent of their relationship to father/husband/lover/son/etc. . So, one of the themes I am trying to address throughout HotK is what women do aside from cooking food, having sex, or bearing children. And to do so in a way that doesn't sound like I'm reading out of a social science textbook. With this chapter, I'm taking a peek at how knowledge of roles and rule is passed on between generations of women, and what someone like Finduilas would be expected to be able to do as a socially and politically prominent woman. As always, post typos and weird phrasings here for the amusement of all. Ang PS - Thanks go to Nath for reporting a few typos in the first part of the story - they have been corrected.

 

 

Re: Ch. 9 - Waiting

I may be repeating Nath's typos, but here they are: I think her vain and selfish, but she is can cause a great deal of trouble because of her influence on the Steward. As Thorongil spoke, his voice took on a cadence that was strange, but delightful. Some of his words sounded slightly off, yet the way he spoke them fit. The[n] he said something that sounded…familiar. A phrasing I found awkward: Her desire is to keep herself the most powerful woman in the City and she does not care if she does harm to the City in the doing.’ The two 'does' and 'in the doing' didn't seem to go well together. The only other thing I spotted: Would Luinil really say ‘Damn it, that is not an answer!’ ? I did like Luinil's political skills, expressed through her social arrangements. And of course as I said in the email, I want to see what you do with Thorongil. Lyllyn

 

 

Re: Ch. 9 - Waiting

Typo one was already caught and typo two has now been fixed. I'll think about ways to rephrase that awkward sentence. Yes, I do think Luinil would swear at Adrahil in this moment. They have been arguing for some time now (since he rose to get dressed at the very least), and she is pissed. As both prince and wife, she knows Something Big is up. Adrahil & the Warden departing in the dead of night for some unknown purpose? It probably means war, and Luinil is furious that Adrahil will not confide in her. What does it say that he will not trust her with this information? Luinil will continue to be a political presence. Yes, Thorongil has some interesting times ahead. Ang PS - Can you guess what it is Finduilas is thinking about that makes Thorongil's story sound so familiar? Someone? Anyone? Bueller?

 

 

Re: Ch. 9 - Waiting

Yes, I do think Luinil would swear at Adrahil in this moment. Sorry, I'll rephrase. I don't doubt the swearing, but 'Damn it' didn't hit me as Middle-earth high born lady. 'Curses of Melkor?' 'By Angband's hells?' Lyllyn

 

 

Re: Ch. 9 - Waiting

Sorry, I'll rephrase. I don't doubt the swearing, but 'Damn it' didn't hit me as Middle-earth high born lady. 'Curses of Melkor?' 'By Angband's hells?' No. Why *wouldn't* she say just plain old "Damn it"? Tossing in the M-e references sounds stilted to me. I don't go around cursing "By Jehovah's beard!" or "By Satan's Hells!" I say damn, shit, hell, etc. - just like folks in other cultures with somewhat different visions of heaven, hell, damnation, etc., than I do would say. This gets back to one of my pet peeves in fanfic. We'll make up elaborate and ridiculous invocations, whilst ignoring the actual cussing patterns of real people: "The story tells that the plumbers had arrived for repairs in the Vatican. The Pope (John XXIII) heard how one of them started swearing in the name of the whole Holy Family. He came out and asked politely: "Must you do this? Can't you say merde as we do too?" " p. 61, "Angelo Giuseppe Roncalli: A Christian on St. Peter's Chair from 1958 to 1963", Men in Dark Times, Hannah Arendt Ang

 

 

Re: Ch. 9 - Waiting

*Sorry, I'll rephrase. I don't doubt the swearing, but 'Damn it' didn't hit me as Middle-earth high born lady. 'Curses of Melkor?' 'By Angband's hells?'* No. Why *wouldn't* she say just plain old "Damn it"? Tossing in the M-e references sounds stilted to me. Hm, I agree to Lyllyns suggestions. I too think 'Damn it' is a wrong term. And it is a christian exclamation ! I think it means 'It should go to hell and burn in purgatory at least until the Last Judgement'. For me that feels thoroughly wrong. There is no hell in Middle-Earth, no purgatory, and no Last Judgement. Lyllyns suggestions feel not stilted for me, but I am surely a LoTR purist ;-) I liked the introduction of Finduilas into the management of a great estate and the assessment of her sisters abilities by their mother. People have so different abilities, I think it right they should live according to them, although parents should try as much as possible to enhance even small abilities. Nevertheless, nobody can become a mathematician without inherent abilities only by training. Best wishes Elanor

 

 

Re: Ch. 9 - Waiting

She stifled a sigh and resigned herself to being his chosen company for the evening. ‘That was lovely tale, Captain. I have never been north of Minas Tirith, but now I feel I have journeyed all the way to Edoras.’ It was no exaggeration – the story had been marvelous. "That was a lovely tale", I think. You know, I think i've been through this story a couple of times, and yet there are always more. I think they breed when I turn the lights off. Sighhhhhh, I should be doing something else, but here I am. I think the something else has caught up, though, so this may be all for tonight.

 

 

Re: Ch. 9 - Waiting

You know, I think i've been through this story a couple of times, and yet there are always more. I think they breed when I turn the lights off. I think you're right. Thanks for effort above and beyond the call of duty! I will tweak these last typos next weekend. Toodles - Ang

 

 

In Forums

Discussion Info

Intended for: General Audience

This forum is open to all HASA members. It is read-only for the general public.

Membership on HASA is free and it takes only a few minutes to join. If you would like to participate, please click here.

If you are already a member, please log in to participate.

« Back to Hands of the King

Stories linked to the forum