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Discussing: Did Celeborn know Luthien?

Did Celeborn know Luthien?

I am so not a First Age person, but I keep getting these nuzguls. Help!

I know Galadriel dwelt for a while with Melian and Thingol, was Celeborn there then?  Lúthien - Doriath... Celeborn - Doriath.  It seems like they ought to have known each other, but Celeborn is never mentioned with the Lúthien stories, is he?  Do you think he knew her? How well did he know her? Could they have been friends?




Re: Did Celeborn know Luthien?

Hi Gwynnyd!

I don't remember seeing anything about them meeting in canon.... however, it sure seems eminently reasonable that the Elf known as the Prince of Doriath would know the princess of Doriath ;)... especially since he is referred to as a kinsman of Thingol in Appendix B and in The Silmarillion....

- Barbara

P.S. Okay, let's just not even think about Tolkien's later attempts to recast Celeborn as being a Teleri from Aman... in particular, his Telerin name *rolls eyes*.



Re: Did Celeborn know Luthien?

Celeborn knowing Lúthien? That is an interesting question. If yes, he even could have been one of her admirers until Artanis came along and took care of him. Celeborn was a kinsman of Thingol? Wow, I did not know that - even though I have read the Silmarillion, is this not strange?

Celeborn's Teleirn name, oh my gosh. If I named it here, would my post be mature content? I think that nobody would have taken Celeborn seriously, then. *snork*. I just had to comment that.




Re: Did Celeborn know Luthien?

Now, now... just because we snicker at Teleporno ( call 1-900-HOTTELF... the first three minutes are free!  Have your credit card ready.)  doesn't mean that it isn't a perfectly respectable Telerin name.

 But, you know, I think I'll stick with the "Prince of Doriath" scenario.

And, good! No one will roll over and cringe if I have Celeborn remembering Lúthien. 




Re: Did Celeborn know Luthien?

With nobody, I meant us fan-community who is reading all that. I do not doubt that it would have been a perfectly normal Telerin name.

call 1-900-HOTTELF... the first three minutes are free!  Have your credit card ready

Oh my, there you go. You had me laughing so hard I cried! Such things are only topped by a little christmas card I had been sent two years ago by Cassia and Sio of the mellon chronicles. It showed Aragorn and Legolas with Santa-hats. And Aragorn had such a precious look... After I saw that I fell to the floor and rolled around laughing histerically.

No one will roll over and cringe if I have Celeborn remembering Lúthien. 

I think most will not even stop to think about it and simply believe what they read.




Re: Did Celeborn know Luthien?

Galadriel didn't appear in Tolkien's unpublished writings on Middle-earth until "The Lord of the Rings". After that, Tolkien, realising that she was important, had to revise his earlier work hastily to slot her in. This resulted in several mutually contradictory accounts of her (and by extension Celeborn's) doings before LOTR, which was not settled before Tolkien's death. Since the Silmarillion was put together by Christopher Tolkien, it didn't contain any of this material, which only saw light later in "Unfinished Tales".

This is, I believe, the Primary World reason why Celeborn and Galadriel don't figure in the accounts of Doriath. Looking at it from within Arda, if one assumes that Celeborn was the Sindarin grandson of Thingol's brother Elmo, ie Luthien's second cousin, Celeborn and Luthien would have known each other quite well. 

If he is taken to be a Teler, they might still have been acquainted, since in that version he and Galadriel came to Middle-earth by themselves, separately from the Noldor. This is a less likely origin, since in LOTR Galadriel implies that she met him in Middle-earth.



Re: Did Celeborn know Luthien?

I think Celeborn had to have known Lúthien, but the contradicting biographies of Galadriel lose me. I'd ask someone at Elf Fetish--they are complete lst Age experts. Or authors Spinx or Marnie, but I don't know where to find them....



Re: Did Celeborn know Luthien?

Anna Wing's arguments convince me. And, hey, it's certainly "serious" fanon at very least!



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