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Discussing: Fate of Elurin and Elured

Fate of Elurin and Elured

Elurin and Elured, uncles of Elrond and Elros, were abandoned in the woods by their enemies. According to the quote I found in the Sil, their fate was unknown, but it was assumed that they starved to death. However, an article in Wikipedia claims that "Tradition among the Nandor of Ossiriand held that they were led to the safety of the woodlands by birds and beasts, and survived." No source is cited. Has anyone run across this quote? Thanks! Branwyn



Re: Fate of Elurin and Elured

Hi Branwyn, I just did a quick search for "Nandor" in Silm, UT, and HoME, and found nothing like what you describe. Tolkien changed his mind about the names of Elves (not to mention personal names), so there could still be something there that is not assocated with the name "Nandor"... Sorry! - Barbara



Re: Fate of Elurin and Elured

I'll add to what Barbara wrote - using my index to HoMe I can't find any mention of a different fate for them, not under Elurin and Elured, or under older names of Eldun and Elrun, and Elbereth and Elboron. Lyllyn



Re: Fate of Elurin and Elured

Lyllyn and Barbara-- Thanks for your research on this! I went back to the Wikipedia article and found that, unfortunately, there is no contact information for its original editor. However, doesn't it just sound like Tolkien to add this uncertain ending to their bleak tale! I did set up a discussion over there, in case that contributor is still active on the site. Another editor at Wikipedia claimed that the boys were not twins. Based on their names and the occurrence of other twins in the bloodline, I was assuming that they were. Am I correct? Thanks again. Branwyn



Re: Fate of Elurin and Elured

I just did a quick look ... not a major search by any means, there are other references, but I found this in PoME... The Problem of Ros: "He (Dior) gave to his elder son the name Elured, that is said to have the same significance, but ended in the Beorian word reda 'heir'; to his second son he gave the name Elurin, but his daughter the name Elwing." (missing a lot of the little accents marks here, sorry.) Then later in the chapter notes: 'Rememberance of Elu': containing Sindarin rin from Common Eldarin rene , base ren 'recall, have in mind'. [These names Elured and Elurin replace Eldun and Elrun (originally Elboron and Elbereth); and the story that Dior's sons were twins had been abandoned (see XI.300, 349-50).



Re: Fate of Elurin and Elured

Leaward’s quote from PoME has the references to a passage in War of the Jewels, (HoME XI) that has this information: In one note the sons of Dior are said not to be twins and their birthdates are three years apart on the genealogy chart in The Wanderings of Hurin, (XI.300). However, in the drafts of The Tale of Years (XI.349-50), they are said to be twins – but then, the reference in PoME said this aspect of the story had been abandoned. There is this passage also: (XI.350) “ The cruel servants of Celegorn seize Dior’s sons (Elrún and Eldún) and leave them to starve in the forest. (Nothing certain is known of their fate, but some say that the birds succored them, and led them to Ossir.)” I could not tell from the commentary which manuscript came first and it might be that the PoME passage supercedes them both. It seems CT accepted as final the notion that the youngsters were not twins and there are several accounts that indicate that they did not survive against one side note that they might have. So, from a strictly canonical standpoint I would have to say they probably didn’t make it in Tolkien’s opinion, but its more than enough of a lead if someone was contemplating a fic about the kids. ;) Ithildin *(



Re: Fate of Elurin and Elured

Ithildin-- Thanks much--you found the elusive quote! What does the abbreviation PoME stand for? Also, I own a slipcovered set of books entitled "The Histories of Middle-Earth," but there are only 5 volumes. Now I am confused because you cite "HoME XI." Does this mean I need to buy another set of books? Branwyn



Re: Fate of Elurin and Elured

Branwyn, I’m glad to be of help, and I thank Leaward for posting the reference that got me started. As to PoME – that stands for Peoples of Middle-earth (HoME XII) I think the best way to approach HoME is to gradually acquire volumes according to your interest in, or need for, what it contains. Which volume you add next might depend on whether you want language resources or First Age references or drafts of LOTR and its appendices, etc.. Other books I find very helpful are Unfinished Tales, Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, and The Atlas of Middle-earth. Here is a link to a comprehensive listing of the HoME series and what is in each book (from the Mellonath Daeron site): Contents of HoME Ithildin *(



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