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Discussing: Elboron and Elfwine

Elboron and Elfwine

Do we know how old they are? Also do we know when Faramir married Eowyn? While Elfwine and Elboron are the only specified off-spring of Eomer and Faramir there isn't anything to say they couldn't have other children, is there? Avon

 

 

Re: Elboron and Elfwine

Hi Avon, Unfortunately best guesses might have to suffice, though I will do some more digging. For now: Faramir and Eowyn were trothplighted at Theoden's wedding feast and married in 3020, and Eomer and Lothiriel were married a year later. Based on the general pattern, I would expect a child would have been born within the first 5 years of marriage for both, but those children could have been daughters as easily as Elboron and Elfwine. Either way, I would expect that both were born prior to the birth of Eldarion, who was most likely born in F.A. 20. As for more children, it is certainly possible. Generally it is safer for a lord to have 2 children at least, in case the heir snuff’s it before gaining the crown, so I would expect that Faramir and Eomer each had at least two children. Having an abundance of sons, however, oft led to the downfall of kingdoms, so I would expect that if they had more than two, the surplus were likely daughters. I would think that Faramir, especially, was likely home for sufficient stretches of time to expect multiple children. Eomer is a little more questionable. He may not have been home for sufficient stretches to expect more than one or two children (assuming faithfulness on the part of Lothiriel.) All conjecture, as stated already. Karri

 

 

Re: Elboron and Elfwine

Thanks, Karri. That all sounds okay then - I just needed Faramir to become a father first, with Eomer soon after, for preference. MInd you *sigh* the way my writing is going at the moment I probably still won't be able to get the dratted story to work. Thanks, Avon

 

 

Re: Elboron and Elfwine

Actually I was fairly certain that Eomer and Lothiriel were married in 3020. There are no dates given for any of their children, to my knowledge. I certainly have felt free to invent, and I assume someone would have yelled at me had that been a violation of canon. However, that's never a guarantee. Well, good luck anyway. I am also in the midst of massive rewrites and structural changes, and can empathize. I cannot get Eomer and Lothiriel married; the story is simply not going to work. Hope yours goes better. Not that I'm not having fun... --DL7

 

 

Re: Elboron and Elfwine

Um... how did Faramir and Eowyn get trothplighted at Theoden's wedding feast if they didn't even know each other/weren't born then?

 

 

Re: Elboron and Elfwine

Oh hang on... *lightbulb* You must have meant Aragorn's wedding feast sorry!

 

 

Re: Elboron and Elfwine

Um... how did Faramir and Eowyn get trothplighted at Theoden's wedding feast Actually, it was Théoden's funeral/burial feast... (And, no, he didn't attend...) - Barbara

 

 

Re: Elboron and Elfwine

Which always reminds me of this from Hamlet: the funeral baked meats Did coldly furnish forth the marriage tables. ;) Avon

 

 

Re: Elboron and Elfwine

DL7 wrote: Actually I was fairly certain that Eomer and Lothiriel were married in 3020. In Appendix A in II The House of Eorl it says: "In the last year of the Third Age he [Eomer]wedded Lothíriel, daughter of Imrahil. " Then in Appendix B, the Tale of years, it says: 3021 S.R. 1421 The Last of the Third Age In Appendix D it says, "The Fourth Age was held to have begun with the departure of Master Elrond , whch took place in September 3021; but for purposes of record in the Kingdom Fouth Age 1 was the year that began according to the New Reckoning in March 25, 3021 old style." There are other quotes In HoMe 12 (People's of Middle Earth) saying that variant drafts of the Appendices placed the end of the TA anywhere between 3019 and 3022. However "canon" is 3021. Bizarrely enough, the only child of this generation that we seem to have a birthday for is Alphros, son of Elphir, son of Imrahil, which is given as 3017 in HoMe 12 (People's of Middle Earth). Cheers, Liz (PS - DL7, hope you are managing to solve your issues with getting Eomer and Lothiriel married!)

 

 

Re: Elboron and Elfwine

Regarding Karri's comment, how would either Faramir or Eomer guaranteed the gender of their children? I don't see either lord foregoing the pleasures of their wives' beds after two sons, so it would have been pure luck if they'd each sired two sons and some daughters.... Of course, maybe the Valar are fooling around with the genes or something. I note that Aragorn and most of his ancestors seem to be only sons... RAKSHA

 

 

Re: Elboron and Elfwine

I note that Aragorn and most of his ancestors seem to be only sons... I suspect that that is simply a function of selective authoring -- Tolkien didn't think the females in a patrilineal society were important, so he just didn't mention them. Note that, according to the family trees, none of them (aside from Aragorn & Arathorn) had wives, either -- but those male children just kept popping up anyway... hmmmm, unless mpreg is actually canonical? And even younger brothers (or possibly even older brothers who, say, died in childhood) don't necessarily appear -- we know, for example, that Arvedui had at least two sons, but only know the name of the oldest, who became Chieftain of the Dúnedain; also Eärendur had three sons, all of whom became Kings of their own kingdoms, but would Tolkien tell us the name of the two that were King of something-other-than-Arthedain? Nooooooooo, of course not... (But I'm not bitter... Not me. I just *love* using clever names like "Eärendur's Son2" to identify the first King of Rhudaur in my genealogies.) So, what I'm suggesting is: take Tolkien's Family Trees with a generous pinch of salt... they are accurate (as far as they go), but woefully incomplete. - Barbara

 

 

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