Forum: Research Questions

Discussing: Rohirrim?

Rohirrim?

Okay, who can tell me... I have seen this word used in plural, also "Riders of Rohan". What is the singular term.

And what are the nuances... I mean, who says "Rohirrim" and who says "Riders of Rohan" and do other people have other terms for them? Do they call themselves Rohirrim?

I am trying to figure out the subtleties of address.

Drat. Now I am beginning to wonder what culture calls hobbits "hobbits" and who calls them Halflings...

Feeling very insecure tonight for some reason.

Help, please?

 

 

Re: Rohirrim?

Okay, who can tell me... I have seen this word used in plural, also "Riders of Rohan". What is the singular term.

Rohir. Though I can't remember anyone in the books actually saying "rohir," that's the singular forming Rohirrim. You could also refer to the person as an Eorling (singular of Eorlingas) or use "one of the Rohirrim" or some other such construction.

And what are the nuances... I mean, who says "Rohirrim" and who says "Riders of Rohan" and do other people have other terms for them? Do they call themselves Rohirrim?

I'm not basing this on anything but my instincts, but Rohirrim sounds like Westron to me. I think it's what anyone who's not a Rohirrim, and probably many people who are, would call them. Among themselves, the Rohirrim might call themselves Eorlingas, but I think you're safe with Rohirrim across the board.

Drat. Now I am beginning to wonder what culture calls hobbits "hobbits" and who calls them Halflings...

Well to quote Pippin in "Treebeard," The Two Towers, "Nobody else calls us hobbits; we call ourselves that." No one seems to know the name hobbits when they first meet Merry and Pippin, but Merry and Pippin itnroduce them as such and the others pick up fast enough.

Rohirrim: holbytlan (sing. holbyt) in Rohirric; halflings in common tongue

Bree and Arnor: Little People, hobbits

Elves: Gildor's company calls Frodo, Sam, and Pippin hobbits

Gondorians: halflings, periannath (sing. perian)

HTH,
Marta

 

 

Re: Rohirrim?

ROTK - They named it anew the Mark of the Riders, and they called themselves the Eorlingas; but in Gondor their land was called Rohan, and its people the Rohirrim (that is, the Horse-lords).

Avon

 

 

Re: Rohirrim?

I am trying to figure out the subtleties of address.
Lindelea, there is an entry for the Rohirrim under Character Bios in Resources. There are citations for source material so you can read further.

The people of Gondor refer to them as the Horse-lords or Rohirrim, as do Gandalf and Aragorn in a couple of conversations:
...I was glad, for in the Riddermark of Rohan the Rohirrim, the Horse-lords, dwell, and there are no horses like those that are bred in that great vale between the Misty Mountains and the White.
"Are the Men of Rohan still to be trusted, do you think?"
(Gandalf at the Council of Elrond, relating his conversation with Gwaihir the Windlord) *note that he also calls them "Men of Rohan"
You are looking now south-west across the north plains of the Riddermark, Rohan the land of the Horse-lords...of old all that lay between Limlight and the White Mountains belonged to the Rohirrim.
Aragorn to Legolas and Gimli in The Riders of Rohan
"Cirion, therefore, in reward for his aid, gave Calenardhon between Anduin and Isen to Eorl and his people...They named it anew the Mark of the Riders [i.e. Riddermark], and they called themselves the Eorlingas; but in Gondor their land was called Rohan, and its people the Rohirrim (that is, the Horse-lords)." RotK, Appendix A, II, The House of Eorl
I've noted that in the book the Rohirrim almost exclusively refer to themselves as the Eorlingas or Eorlings. I cannot find any instance where they call themselves Rohirrim (contrary to the dialog used in the movies *grrr*). The pervasive use of Rohirrim in the book makes sense if we remember that it is supposed to be that which was recorded by the Hobbits, who would use Westron; therefore, they would use the term Rohirrim when talking about them. But whenever a direct quote is recorded, the Rohirrim call themselves Eorlings or the Eorlingas.
From the lands between the Gladden and the Carrock came the folk that were known in Gondor as the Rohirrim, Masters of Horses. They still spoke their ancestral tongue, and gave new names in it to nearly all the places in their new country: and they called themselves the Eorlings, or the Men of the Riddermark. But the lords of that people used the Common Speech freely, and spoke it nobly after the manner of their allies in Gondor; for in Gondor whence it came the Westron kept still a more gracious and antique style.
APPENDIX F: THE LANGUAGES AND PEOPLES OF THE THIRD AGE
There are many more, but I think you get the general idea. The orcs call them Whiteskins and the Dunlendings, Forgoil and Strawheads. Ghân-buri-Ghân refers to them simply as Horse-men.

I hope this helps.

~Nessime

Addendum: I have to amend a portion of my response. I had forgotten to add that the names Rohan and Rohirrim have their origins in Sindarin, which is in keeping with the naming conventions of the Gondorians, who spoke Westron [i.e. the Common Tongue] but most often chose their names from Sindarin.

In tracking down the citation for the first use of the name Rohan by Cirion's son and heir, Hallas, I found this:
The Sindarin names Rohan for the Mark and Rohirrim for the people were devised first by Hallas, son and successor of Cirion, but were often used not only in Gondor but by the Éothéod themselves.
(UT: Cirion and Eorl)
So despite the absence of its use in any of the dialog found in the book, its use would indeed be accepted among the Rohirrim themselves.
~N.

 

 

Re: Rohirrim?

For the singular, I would use rochir as opposed to rohir; the word rohirrim is transparently the former word, meaning "rider" in Sindarin, with the collective plural suffix -rim ("host," "people") attached, which likely forced a mutation of the intervocalic -ch- to -h-.

 

 

Re: Rohirrim?

Marta, Avon, Nessime, Aerlinnel,

Thank you so much for your help! I am taking this into consideration in my new story. I don't know much about the Horse Lords... yet... am sure I will find out. I hope people will point out problems (and suggest corrections) if they happen to read "As the Gentle Rain" (the first few chapters of which are soon to be posted). By necessity, some of the story takes place in Rohan, a place I have only visited in passing up until now. (I got kidnapped by passing hobbits and have spent the better part of last year in the Shire.)

Lin

 

 

Culture and justice?

What sort of justice would the Rohirrim have?

I imagine that horse-stealing would be about the most serious crime imaginable, right on up there with murder.

Would the Wardens (dragging that out of the depths of memory, may be wrong) dispense justice in their regions? Do you think capital cases would go to the King? (Eomer, that is)

How would they execute criminals, assuming they do that and don't just banish them? I don't think they have such a thing as "life imprisonment", they are much too practical for that, and being a semi-nomadic people such would be very impractical. I doubt they'd banish dangerous criminals, anyhow. Would someone being hunted down be captured and brought in alive for trial, or would the hunters just dispense justice themselves? Would there be bounty hunters in Middle Earth? (I can almost imagine non-Rohirric scruffy fellows who look almost as bad as the hunted, but then that could be a lingering influence of Westerns and the original Star Wars series...)

I have a very nasty fellow to deal with, and am not quite sure how to handle him yet.

I can see I will have to go back and read bits in Two Towers again. I know there are clues in the text but I cannot find the notes I made. Any help from someone who's been researching and writing this culture would be very welcome.

 

 

Re: Culture and justice?

lindelea, there has been some discussion of this on another thread in this forum, and the general consensus to date has been that there simply isn't much canon information available. I've done some prem research for my later chapters and with a little browsing have turned up virtually nothing, so I'm going to have to really dig and I haven't done that yet. I'll eventually whip my notes into shape for a research article to be posted here, but they are far from ready.

In a nutshell, other than Hurin who did face judgement by his peers through a process, Manwe, Thingol, Theoden and Aragorn simply listened to the evidence presented and made a decision. If the leader of your community thought he was a pretty bad guy, he probably would banish him from the area. ... as a personal thought, if he was a skilled woodsman, he may be banished without weapons etc, to ensure his death by the elements.

 

 

Re: Culture and justice?

Thanks, Sulriel. Do you not think the Rohirrim had capital punishment, or am I reading too much into your post? You mention only banishment. I know Gondor had it. Beregond's case has already been mentioned in the other discussion, and Faramir and Eomer both mentioned their lives being forfeit if they did the wrong thing (or is that movie-verse? I am not thinking clearly today. Yes, I read that other discussion on Justice just yesterday, and was happy to do so since it addressed questions I was already looking into for this story.)

I'm thinking Gondor had two kinds of execution: putting a man "to the sword" which was reserved for those of higher status, and hanging for common criminals who are a menace to society. I don't know why I come up with hanging, but it was common in England for centuries, perhaps that's why. Gee, if the Rohirrim fit into English history, being horse-based, would drawing and quartering be their method of capital punishment (shudder--saw it in a movie once as a little kid and image has never quite left me)?

Do you know what horse-based nomadic culture Tolkien was drawing from when he wrote the Rohirrim? I'm thinking they're Norse-based, though I always thought of the Norsemen as boat- rather than horse-based. When I think of horse-based cultures I tend to think of Native Americans (Apache, Comanche, Nez Perce to name a few) or Mongols. I'm sure there must be others but I'm drawing a blank.

OTOH, with writing going so badly at the moment, I'm not sure of anything right now. Aargh. Hate it when this happens.

 

 

Re: Culture and justice?

I think I picked up the banishment from a post on the other discussion. Based on this quick search of the Silm for banish, punish and death here is what I found. Based on these few refs I would say it would be quite possible that your baddie would be put to death.

banishment by Manwe - Feanor from Tiron for drawing a sword on Fingolfin

quote: (Silm) "But Fëanor was not held guiltless, for he it was that had broken the peace of Valinor and drawn his sword upon his kinsman; and Mandos said to him: 'Thou speakest of thraldom. If thraldom it be, thou canst not escape it; for Manwë is King of Arda, and not of Aman only. And this deed was unlawful, whether in Aman or not in Aman. Therefore this doom is now made: for twelve years thou shall leave Tirion where this threat was uttered. In that time take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art. But after that time this matter shall be set in peace and held redressed, if others will release thee.'" ~

In the time that followed Túrin spoke much with Mîm, and sitting with him alone he listened to his lore and the tale of his life. For Mîm came of Dwarves that were banished in ancient days from the great Dwarf-cities of the east, and long before the return of Morgoth they wandered westward into Beleriand; but they became diminished in stature and in smith-craft, and they took to lives of stealth, walking with bowed shoulders and furtive steps. Before the Dwarves of Nogrod and ~

'Let Beren speak!' said Thingol. 'What would you here, unhappy mortal, and for what cause have you left your own land to enter this, which is forbidden to such as you? Can you show reason why my power should not be laid on you in heavy punishment for you insolence and folly?' /snipped Beren's answer/ Then silence fell upon the hall, for those that stood there were astounded and afraid, and they thought that Beren would be slain. But Thingol spoke slowly, saying: 'Death you have earned with these words; and death you should find suddenly, had I not sworn an oath in haste; of which I repent, baseborn mortal, who in the realm of Morgoth has learnt to creep in secret as his spies and thralls.' Then Beren answered: 'Death you can give me earned or unearned; but the names I will not take from you of baseborn, nor spy, nor thrall. By the ring of Felagund, that he gave to Barahir my father on the battle field of the North, my house has not earned such names from any Elf, be he king or no.' (my comment: It appears that Thingol was in the habit of smiting those who back-talked him) ~

apace, and all the Elf-friends were in peril. And so it soon came to pass. For the Meneltarma was utterly deserted in those days; and though not even Sauron dared to defile the high place, yet the King would let no man, upon pain of death, ascend to it, not even those of the Faithful who kept Ilúvatar in their hearts. And Sauron ~

Therefore when Eöl was brought before Turgon he found no mercy; and they led him forth to the Caragdûr, a precipice of black rock upon the north side of the hill of Gondolin, there to cast him down from the sheer walls of the city. And Maeglin stood by and said nothing; but at the last Eöl cried out: 'So you forsake your father and his kin, ill-gotten son! Here shall you fail of all your hopes, and here may you yet die the same death as I.' Then they cast Eöl over the Caragdûr, and so he ended, and to all in Gondolin it seemed just; but Idril was troubled, and from that day she mistrusted her kinsman.

-end snips-

 

 

Re: Culture and justice?

Do you know what horse-based nomadic culture Tolkien was drawing from when he wrote the Rohirrim? I'm thinking they're Norse-based, though I always thought of the Norsemen as boat- rather than horse-based. When I think of horse-based cultures I tend to think of Native Americans (Apache, Comanche, Nez Perce to name a few) or Mongols. I'm sure there must be others but I'm drawing a blank.

and the Bedouin

 

 

Re: Culture and justice?

lindelea wrote:
Do you know what horse-based nomadic culture Tolkien was drawing from when he wrote the Rohirrim?

This is a common perception, but I agree with Michael Martinez's assessment - the Rohirrim were not a nomadic culture. I refer you to his article How did Tolkien actually portray the Rohirrim? He explains it far better than I can.

Here is an excerpt from the article:
Finally, where did the Rohirrim live?

Eorl settled in Aldburg, a city in the Folde probably 40-60 miles southeast of where Edoras was later built. Some have taken exception with my use of the word "city" for Edoras and Aldburg. We are not provided with details of populations but it's clear that even after the departure of part of the Muster of Edoras under Elfhelm (who, according to "The Battles of the Fords of Isen" in Unfinished Tales, led 4 companies to Theodred's aid -- 480 men if the eoreds were at full strength) Theoden was still able to assemble more than 1,000 Riders from the district. The population of Edoras and its nearby lands must therefore have exceeded 6,000 people (more likely it was in excess of 9,000 people -- and this merely assumes all men in the district were Riders, which is unlikely).

In Unfinished Tales Tolkien writes that at the beginning of the War of the Ring the full Muster of Rohan included 12,000 Riders, an arbitrary number set at 100 companies (eoreds) of 120 men each, but that the population of Rohan could have supplied many more Riders. In The Return of the King Theoden tells Hirgon the messenger from Gondor he would have led 10,000 spears to Gondor's aid under better circumstances, a considerable expeditionary force. This army, the Muster of Rohan, was divided into three parts: the Muster of Edoras (led by the First Marshal of the Riddermark), the Muster of the West-mark (led by the Second Marshal of the Riddermark), and the muster of the East-mark (led by the Third Marshal).

Theodred, Second Marshal and commander of the Muster of the West-mark, led 12 companies into the field (11 companies of Riders and 1 company of archers). At full strength these would represent 1440 men. He supplemented his force with an undisclosed number of levies from the West-mark. These levies provided the infantry force to support Theodred's Riders. After the second battle and while the Hornburg was besieged Gandalf rallied as many of the scattered Riders of the Muster of the West-mark as he could and he sent them back to Edoras. In the meantime Erkenbrand's army, hastily raised from the Men of Westfold, seems to have numbered around 1,000 men (according to "Helm's Deep" in The Two Towers). Whether this 1,000 men included the levies from Theodred's force is not indicated, but perhaps 1,000 more remained behind in Westfold (mostly too old or too young to march with the army).

These numbers thus show clearly that the Rohirrim were able to raise large forces in a reasonably short period of time. Necessarily, the men had to be quartered or living close to their commanders in order to answer those summonses. Whereas Theoden or Erkenbrand could each raise 1,000 men in the space of several hours, it required several days to assemble the larger Muster of Rohan, and in that event Theoden left sooner than he intended, taking only 6,000 Riders with him (but Unfinished Tales indicates Erkenbrand was left in command of a substantial force to defend Rohan).

When Legolas, Gimli, and Aragorn followed Ugluk's Orcs through the Emyn Muil (the range of hills in eastern Rohan bordering the lake between Rauros and Sarn Gebir) Legolas asked, "Do any folk dwell in these hills?" Aragorn replied, "No, the Rohirrim seldom come here, and it is far from Minas Tirith."

When Eomer and Aragorn exchanged news and identified themselves to each each other, Eomer said, "The East-mark is my charge, the ward of the Third Marshal, and I have removed all our herds and herdfolk, withdrawing them beyond Entwash, and leaving none here but guards and swift scouts."

It has been suggested that Eomer spoke of the removal of a permanent (nomadic) population.

A nomadic people live in tents and derive most if not all of their sustenance from their herds. There is no mention of such people in any of the passages which detail the travels of Gandalf and the Fellowship through Rohan. We see the houses in the walled city of Edoras, the houses of the villages of Upbourn and Underharrow, and the burning homesteads of Westfold. As Gandalf, Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli ride south from Fangorn to Edoras, there is no mention of herds and herdsfolk. They may have been prudently removed to the southern lands altogether, but there is nothing to indicate any of the Rohirrim ever led a nomadic life. Certainly none of their ancestors were nomads.

The army gathered in Harrowdale when Theoden arrived from Helm's Deep was using tents, but armies have long used tents in the field, and there is no indication the tents served any other purpose than to house the soldiers. Furthermore, if the herdsfolk were nomads, who owned the herds? Why would Tolkien place the Riders of Rohan in towns and (small) cities if he intended to convey a nomadic life for them? Unless the herdsfolk Eomer spoke of were simply specialized workers, like the cowhands who roved the American west, Argentina's pampas, the grasslands of southern France (Cowboys and Vaqueros, Gauchos, etc.). Theoden lived in a hall but he seems to have possessed herds of horses. Someone watched over those herds for him. Tolkien does in fact mention such workers in "The Battles of the Fords of Isen": "...[Theodred] therefore manned the approaches, east and west, to the Fords with sturdy men on foot from the levies of Westfold. Leaving three companies of Riders, together with horse-herds and spare mounts, on the east bank." So the profession of "horse-herd" is attested, albeit only in the context of the Muster of Rohan. If the "horse-herds" lived with their families in the field, they may indeed have been nomadic in lifestyle, but they would not have been representative of Rohan's people or culture.

M. Martinez also gives a lot of the background for the Northmen and the Éothéod, from whom the Rohirrim descend. I have read all the souce materials as well, and I find nothing that supports the view that the Rohirrm were a nomadic people.

~Nessime

 

 

No-madic

What a wealth of information! Thank you, Nessime! I am on the list for "Unfinished Tales" at the library but haven't got it yet.

Perhaps it's possible that the herdsmen were semi-nomadic, as in they lived in established buildings (huts, "furnished" to allow for ease of moving from one to another as needed, monthly or seasonally or something?) but moved the herds they were watching over from one part of the land to another for fresh grazing. Horses need a lot of pasture! I remember something like one acre per horse was the recommended amount, without having to feed supplemental hay, but I might be wrong. However, it makes sense that the people lived in villages, with a couple of principle towns, perhaps.

That's sort of the premise I was working on.

When I talked about drawing from "nomadic horse-based cultures" I wasn't necessarily thinking the Rohirrim were nomadic, per se, but that their love of horses seemed to match what I've read of the Native Americans, the Mongols, and yes, the Bedouins (and how could I have forgotten them? When I wrote my original post we'd just seen "Hidalgo" the weekend previously). They did not take horses for granted, seeing as how the horse was often necessary for survival. I can't think of a non-nomadic culture that revered horses the way the nomads did, but then, there are little pretend horses galloping all over the house and I can hardly hear myself think at the moment. I had better go and rein them in and settle on the couch for a read-aloud time...

So, was he drawing on some non-nomadic horse-based culture? My old creative writing instructor was fond of claiming that all writing was derivative, and so I was curious as to possible sources.

Lin

 

 

Forgot to ask...

What's the difference between "Westmark" and "Westfold"? If any?

 

 

Eorlings or Eorlingas

Ok, so would the singular form be Eorling? Or would "Knight of the Mark" suffice?

 

 

Re: Forgot to ask...

lindelea wrote:
What's the difference between "Westmark" and "Westfold"? If any?
Being a philologist, Tolkien would have chosen these terms with thought to the geopolitical and the physical characteristics of the land. Mark as used in Riddermark, Eastmark and Westmark all bear the connotation that they form "boundaries" of some sort (the Riddermark itself being a boundary for Gondor, in a protective sense as well as the obvious geographical sense.

mark: Etymology: Middle English, from Old English mearc boundary, march, sign; akin to Old High German marha boundary, Latin margo
1 : a boundary land

BTW the terms Westmark and Eastmark aren't used in the text of LotR, but the terms east marches and west marches are. This still fits the etymology cited above.

Tolkien also uses the terms East Emnet and West Emnet, though only on the maps of Rohan, to indicate the open meads on either side of the River Entwash (I am still trying to locate the meaning/etymology for emnet, but I would imagine it has something to do with the open grasslands - just don't quote me on that ).

Which brings us to fold. Tolkien uses the terms Eastfold and Westfold for those areas along the northern feet of the white Mountains (such as the Westfold valley that leads to Helm's Deep). I think the etymology given below would illustrate why he would use the term for those areas:

fold: Etymology: Middle English, from Old English falod; akin to Old Saxon faled enclosure
3 a : a bend or flexure produced in rock by forces operative after the depositing or consolidation of the rock b chiefly British : an undulation in the landscape

I hope there's something of use to you in all of this.

~Nessime

 

 

Re: Forgot to ask...

I am still trying to locate the meaning/etymology for emnet, but I would imagine it has something to do with the open grasslands

Tom Shippey, in The Road to Middle-earth, writes:

"An 'emnet' is a thing in Middle-earth, also a place in Norfolk, also an asterisk-word *emnmœÞ for 'steppe' or 'prairie', also the green grass which the Riders use as a touchstone for reality."

Norfolk, Suffolk and Cambridgeshire are fenland - flat lands which are the closest we have to steppe or prairie in England.

 

 

Re: Eorlings or Eorlingas

While I have found no use of the singular Eorling in Tolkien's writing (so far ), it seems to be a reasonable assumption that this would be correct. Just because he always happened to be referring to the Eorlings (also Eorlingas) plurally doesn't mean that it couldn't be used singularly.

Knight of the Mark is, I think, more specific - i.e. when Eowyn tells Éomer:
"And what of the king's esquire, the Halfling? Éomer, you shall make him a knight of the Riddermark, for he is valiant!"
A knight is specifically referring to a Rider, a warrior, whereas Eorling can be used for any of the people of Rohan, male, female, child or adult. so the usage depends on the context in which you intent to place it.

Does that help?

~Nessime

 

 

Re: Forgot to ask...

"An 'emnet' is a thing in Middle-earth, also a place in Norfolk, also an asterisk-word *emnmœÞ for 'steppe' or 'prairie', also the green grass which the Riders use as a touchstone for reality."
Thank you, Altariel! I was certain I'd seen it in Shippy's writing somewhere, but couldn't locate it. And emnet doesn't show up in any of the dictionaries or etymologies I have access to. The closest word was emmet, but that means ant and I didn't think that fit the context very well.

~Nessime

 

 

Re: Forgot to ask...

I was certain I'd seen it in Shippy's writing somewhere, but couldn't locate it.

I saw him talking about it in a documentary about Tolkien rather than in his writings, but when I checked just now in The Road to Middle-earth, it was handily in the index!

 

 

Re: Rohan vs. Rochan

For the singular, I would use rochir as opposed to rohir; the word rohirrim is transparently the former word, meaning "rider" in Sindarin, with the collective plural suffix -rim ("host," "people") attached, which likely forced a mutation of the intervocalic -ch- to -h-.

Just one more tiny tidbit on this point...

_Rohan_ and _Rohirrim_ actually represented ''Westronized' forms of the Sindarin words and were the forms used in Gondor.
Elves would have used the true Sindarin forms of _Rochan_ and _Rochirrim_.

Ithildin (*

 

 

Re: Forgot to ask...

...when I checked just now in The Road to Middle-earth, it was handily in the index!
That's where I was looking! I checked again and emnet isn't in the index of my copy. I wonder if it's a different edition? Mine is the trade paperback. Please, can you point me toward the chapter that the reference is in, so I'll know where to find it for future reference? (I'm still on my first reading of this particular book)

~Nessime

 

 

Re: Eorlings or Eorlingas

A knight is specifically referring to a Rider, a warrior, whereas Eorling can be used for any of the people of Rohan, male, female, child or adult. so the usage depends on the context in which you intent to place it.

Does that help?


Very helpful, thanks! I respect the people I write about so much (even though they are fictional, which sometimes slips the mind) that I do not want to insult them by putting the wrong words in their mouths, or calling them the wrong thing!

Now I know I've gone round the bend...

Lin

 

 

Re: Forgot to ask...

That's where I was looking! I checked again and emnet isn't in the index of my copy. I wonder if it's a different edition? Mine is the trade paperback.

I think this is a second edition, 1992. And a British edition, of course.


Please, can you point me toward the chapter that the reference is in, so I'll know where to find it for future reference? (I'm still on my first reading of this particular book)

Guilty of having had it on my shelf for a couple of years without reading it yet! It's chapter 4, The Cartographic Plot, and under the section heading 'The edges of the Mark', right at the end of that section.

 

 

Re: Forgot to ask...

Wouldn't you know, I had that book out from the library and never got the time to look at it, then had to hand it back in and am once more on the wait list. *sigh*

I *do* buy books on occasion, but have maxed out the current book budget with "Atlas of ME". Checked it out from the library so many times I figured it was a "keeper".

 

 

More Rohirrim questions

Does anyone have any clue how the Rohirrim maintained and sustained their military? Since I am far too cynical and pragmatic to believe that people joined the army for purely honor's sake, I have to believe that there was some sort of compensation. Either you were given some sort of currency -- gold or silver I'd imagine -- or were fed (in which case *I'd* join the Rohirric army -- horse + free food sounds good to me) or something like that.

And even if they were given nothing more than honor and the glory of serving Rohan, they had to be fed, horses had to be fed and cared for, weapons had to be maintained and replaced, etc. etc. etc. Maintaining a standing army is a huge resource suck. Anyone have a clue how they did this? Or logical suggestions.

It's funny the little questions you run into while writing fanfic that you NEVER considered when you were just reading/watching it.

 

 

Re: More Rohirrim questions

> Maintaining a standing army is a huge resource suck. Anyone have a clue how they did this?

I don' t think that they did... Eomer refers to his eored (120 Riders) as "men of his household" when he meets Aragorn Gimli & Legolas. And he led them out w/out Theoden's permission. To me this says that he is solely responsible for their upkeep and their leadership. I would imagine that they weren't paid in money, but with lodging, training, equipment.

The full muster of the Rohirrim, what Theoden led to Gondor, would be made up of all the able-bodied men of Rohan who could fight, but in normal everyday life were farmers/herders/farriers/etc. The permament standing army wouldn't be very large - probably just the eoreds of the King, the Marshals & various other lords.

I don't have it with me, but therre's quite a bit about the military org. of Rohan in Unfinished Tales - you could check that out for further info.

[rather disjointed post, sorry, but Nora is just waking up from her nap so I don't have time to make it more logical]

 

 

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