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Discussing: All Of Them Together - edit

All Of Them Together - edit

I have been wavering since I wrote this story about a tiny but significant (to me) bit that I decided to leave out.

I changed my mind - and added it back in. Please let me know if you like it better in or out!!

It concerns the capture of Thorongil, and here is the changed passage:

Eventually the men of stone surrounded the captain from the city of stone, and the small commander climbed up onto the bench and demanded surrender and tribute.

“I have naught of value that I can buy my life with,” the captain conceded. “What will you have of me?”

The small commander considered carefully, brushing his long dark hair back behind one ear, leaving a trail of grime like a sooty scar on his brow. He leaned back against the wall, crossing his arms and legs to echo his friend’s, and looked him up and down, letting his eyes come to rest on the rayed star the Captain always wore pinned to his cloak.

“I think you might have something of value, Captain,” he ventured.

Thorongil looked at the spot where the star was pinned to his shoulder, touched it gently and smiled, turning his eyes to the boy. “Indeed. But not that I could offer for my ransom.”

“Why not, Captain?”

The steel-grey eyes were serious as they watched his face, and he responded in kind. “There are some things, soldier, that are worth more to a man than their value. If I were to give up my star, I would also have to give my honor away… and then I would not have a life worth saving. So what I told you was the truth, and you must offer me other terms, or accept my surrender.”

“I see,” the small commander nodded, and the Captain had to admit it looked as though he had. Then his face slowly broadened into a grin and he became a child again.

“I am afraid I will have to ask papa to open the dungeons for my captive…” he chuckled, “or… will you sing to me, Thorongil? That would be nice!"



 

 

Re: All Of Them Together - edit

Yes, I like that. I don't think it is insignificant - it goes pretty deeply to the heart of our Aragorn. One thing I did wonder about though - and I simply can't remember if it is so in the actual story - would Boromir accept being addressed as 'soldier' when he's *obviously seeing himself as being of rank? A minor, minor point anyway - it just caught my attention.

Avon

 

 

Re: All Of Them Together - edit

I thought this added to the story and to Thorongil's character. It showed his serious side which I see as so much a part of him that it should surface even in a humorous encounter. It also sounded more typical of a lot of children (although one might presume the Steward's heir would have everything) that an object would be a desirable ransom and the song a second best. In this case, with the star symbolizing a commander to the young Boromir, it makes ultimate sense that he would fix on it. And the foreshadowing symbolism to the reader of Boromir desiring the position that the star permits Aragorn to lay claim to... - Tay, you must leave it in!

Lyllyn

 

 

Re: All Of Them Together - edit

I agree with Avon and Lyllyn - this is significant and I think you should leave it in. The only thing that rang... well, not off to me, exactly, but... well here:

“I think you might have something of value, Captain,” he ventured.

Thorongil looked at the spot where the star was pinned to shoulder, touched it gently and smiled, turning his eyes to the boy. “Indeed. But not that I could offer for my ransom.”

“Why not, Captain?”


Now, I can't tell you why this strikes me this way, but when Boromir uses "Captain" a second time, for some reason it seems ... a little too cool, to me, a little too... almost adversarial. Like he's not really interested to know why - the sort of rhetorical "why" you might give a store clerk who tells you that they can't sell you the blouse that's in the window. When I re-read it to myself as:

“I think you might have something of value, Captain,” he ventured.

Thorongil looked at the spot where the star was pinned to shoulder, touched it gently and smiled, turning his eyes to the boy. “Indeed. But not that I could offer for my ransom.”

“Why not?”


the "why not?" seems more truly inquisitive, and less irritated. And I like inquisitive Boromir here better than irritated Boromir.

But that may be just me. Like I said, I don't know why it strikes me that way.

And I'm still completely in love with the story, regardless.

 

 

Re: All Of Them Together - edit

the "why not?" seems more truly inquisitive, and less irritated. And I like inquisitive Boromir here better than irritated Boromir.

I agree with Rachel. What you decide to do, however, depends on what you want Boromir to feel at the moment.

I love the foreshadowing that that piece of dialogue introduces to the story. I like how it enlightens not only on Thorongil's character, but also on Boromir's. I must ask you, though, why did you choose to leave that part out? Well, I guess it added an element to the story that you were not sure you wanted in it. But, the way you describe the event, and how the dialogue ends, eases the tension that this moment created, and puts things back to normal. I like it a lot

 

 

Re: All Of Them Together - edit

Chris addressed a different spot than you guys did, so I have made some new corrections ---

Avon : would Boromir accept being addressed as 'soldier' when he's *obviously seeing himself as being of rank

I did, in fact, use that address in the beginning of the story. I was torn between the rank of the little commander in the games he is playing, and the fact that The Captain has real rank that he would respect, being Denethor’s son, and he has been left in his charge. I think ‘soldier’ may be his regular tem of endearment, but I did not address that. *yet* I will think about it some more.

Lyllyn: It showed his serious side which I see as so much a part of him that it should surface even in a humorous encounter. Indeed, I think the concept of honor is so much a part of how his brain works that it would surface if given any chance.

It also sounded more typical of a lot of children (although one might presume the Steward's heir would have everything) that an object would be a desirable ransom and the song a second best. In this case, with the star symbolizing a commander to the young Boromir, it makes ultimate sense that he would fix on it.

I think so, too –

And the foreshadowing symbolism to the reader of Boromir desiring the position that the star permits Aragorn to lay claim to...

I am so pleased to see this doing what I wanted, and not what I feared!!

Shadow: when Boromir uses "Captain" a second time, for some reason it seems ... a little too cool, to me, a little too... almost adversarial. I was thinking that as the ‘little prince’ and Denethor’s boy he would be excruciatingly polite, and I had not meant it to sound adversarial – but I like the phrasing you suggest even more because it does sounds so much like a kid – not that he is not being polite, he is just curious and excited, and he does consider Thorongil a friend as well as a Captain. So, I made that change.

Starlight: I must ask you, though, why did you choose to leave that part out?

I wanted to have that ‘ooh, shiny’ reaction that a kid would have, and I wanted him not to be afraid to question Thorongil when he says he has nothing of value while visibly wearing the shiny thing -but I did not want to show him… ummm… lusting for jewelry…

I wanted to let Thorongil make a point about honor, the star is a good visible way to go, but I did not want to point to later ring-lust or any kind of material greed, which I don’t think is in the boy. (Or the man, for that matter).

I reworked it and made it as simple an exchange as I could. The idea that singing was a consolation prize became a benefit of the change.

Chris did not like the wording of “There are some things, soldier, that are worth more to a man than their value. If I were to give up my star, I would also have to give my honor away… so we went through several versions and I settled on If I were to give up my star, I would also be giving up my honor…

Thanks a ton for this. Please tell me I am not foreshadowing ring lust….



 

 

Re: All Of Them Together - edit

so we went through several versions and I settled on If I were to give up my star, I would also be giving up my honor…

Yes, that does flow more smoothly.

Avon

 

 

Re: All Of Them Together - edit

That's a beautiful addition!
I'm glad you brought in the bit about the star.

I wanted to have that ‘ooh, shiny’ reaction that a kid would have, and I wanted him not to be afraid to question I wanted to let Thorongil make a point about honor, the star is a good visible way to go, but I did not want to point to later ring-lust or any kind of material greed, which I don’t think is in the boy. (Or the man, for that matter).

IMO, what you want has come out pretty well. I don't think it shows up as foreshadowing ring lust. Well, atleast it didn't occur to me when I first read it.



 

 

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